Ockeghem Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Greetings everyone, I’m new to the passion of talking machines, and about to start my journey in this amazing world with the purchase of a Victor gramophone a seller sent me the pictures of. I have a doubt which may seem banal but I really need an expert’s knowledge and can’t find any infos on the web: aren’t victor machine supposed to have another kind of horn, rather than this brass one? I know of painted black cone-shaped steel horns with a brass bell on Victor machines, but never seen a flower-shaped one entirely made of brass like this is. The rest of the machine looks genuine though. Can someone help me with my doubts, before I fall in an incautious mistake? thank you very much, have a good day! O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilvanstem Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 We could look it up in our books we own if we knew what that data plate says as far as model and SN. Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phonogfp Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 That is not a genuine Victor, but rather what is often called a "Frankenphone;" a machine made up from parts of several others - often of various brands. Unless this is priced very, very cheaply, I'd walk away. It's only value is in some of the parts. George P. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockeghem Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 Thank you very much, I was afraid of that… well it’s not very cheap actually (590€) so I’ll find another solution. I am very grateful for your quick answers, I’ll give you news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valecnik Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ockeghem said: Thank you very much, I was afraid of that… well it’s not very cheap actually (590€) so I’ll find another solution. I am very grateful for your quick answers, I’ll give you news! Good that you inquired when you did. So many people ask such questions after they have already spent a lot of money, only to find out they've purchased junk. Given that you quote 590€ as the price, I assume you are somewhere in Europe. In case you are not aware, there is a gramophone show in Rudesheim, Germany in a few weeks. If it's not too far for you, you might find a very good quality HMV (European Victor) there. However junk is sold there too. You still need to be careful! 🙂 Edited October 9, 2021 by Valecnik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockeghem Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 Thank you for your precious help. Unfortunately Germany is a bit far away, in the next week I won’t be able to move, but I would really love to. I have found an alternative from the same seller who’s a gramophone/jukebox etc. collector, and he’s got this Cockleshell Monarch for sale, I’m going to see it personally the next week. Price would be 900€. Here are some pictures, seems good to me but I would like to know what you think about it! Thanks again 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phonogfp Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Well, this could be an improvement, but... It's troubling that the crank-side of the machine is not shown. Since the brake and speed control appear to be in unusual positions, and there's something patched up in the front left-hand corner, it suggests this example may have been re-motored. The back bracket is a U.S. component rather than a nickel-plated HMV. I'd definitely ask for pictures of the crank side, and the motor as well. There's an awful lot to learn about antique phonographs/gramophones, and it can be perilous for newcomers. The investment in good books on the subject can save a lot of wasted money and heartache. In this case, a look at page 30 of His Master's Gramophone, by Brian Oakley and Christopher Proudfoot would show you the problems with this machine. If you're interested in HMV machines, I'd highly recommend this book to you. George P. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valecnik Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I agree with phonogfp, Ockeghem. Take your time. Ask a lot of questions. Ask for a lot of pictures. Study the books. His Master's Gramophone is an excellent reference if you can find it. Cheers! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I can completely understand your excitement to buy your first machine and the temptations you face in your search but if you buy smart now, you will get far more enjoyment from your collection down the road. I have serious doubts about the pictured machine for all the reasons the other gentlemen stated. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinfoilphono Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I'd also point out that the decal on that horn is upside down, since it's on the wrong side. Which means that horn did not originally go with the elbow to which it is attached. The machine is much better than the outright frankenphone in the first set of pictures, but it's been cobbled to some extent. At the price, you could do much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockeghem Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) Thank you very much for your precious replies, I’ll go see this gentleman in person and see what he has among his 70 machines, take a look at all the details and take some pictures to think it through. I’ll keep you posted! I’ll try (hard!) not to surrender to the excitement of my first purchase! He has two beautiful (and seemingly original, by looking at them) Pathéphone 4, but the idea of purchasing a Pathé always leaves me some perplexities concerning the type of soundbox, and the impossibility to play sideway cut records… too bad because I find them so beautiful and touching… By the way, I have another question: I see around some gramophones with the horn directly attached to the reproducer (like the earlier ones) rather than with a tonearm. Someone can tell me the actual difference in terms of sound or disc wear? Do you think they are still valid for use, maybe with a horn that’s not too large? thanks! Edited October 10, 2021 by Ockeghem Completing content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valecnik Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 7:57 PM, Ockeghem said: By the way, I have another question: I see around some gramophones with the horn directly attached to the reproducer (like the earlier ones) rather than with a tonearm. Someone can tell me the actual difference in terms of sound or disc wear? Do you think they are still valid for use, maybe with a horn that’s not too large? thanks! Do you mean something like this? They are very attractive but not the greatest for enjoying records. They don't sound great and are very hard on the records. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtA Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 You need to ask yourself what is more important - playing records or just the appreciation of a historic phonograph? If playing records is more important, then a practical machine is a good choice. Next, what type of records... cylinders or discs? If the historical aspect is more important, then a front mount machine as Valecnik mentioned, is a great choice, because they are earlier and look the part (at least in my opinion). In the end, it becomes a personal preference and as long as you are buying something authentic, it really doesn't matter. Good luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockeghem Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 Hallo everyone! First of all many thanks to those who helped me out and gave me precious informations. It was really helpful and I learned many thinks that gave me more elements to judge the various machines I came across. I have good news, for I have become the happy owner of this Paillard Maestrophone n.38 “Freyschütz”. I chose it because I found it aesthetically appealing and uncommon (e.g. the beautiful “pleated” horn, which folds I find quite precious) and above all, since it’s a machine I’m going to use for music listening, it has a beautiful, quiet and in great shape Paillard GG double spring motor. Its sound is very clean and powerful, no distortion, reproducer is not original but it’s a genuine 20s one, Melodia Electric with a mica membrane. Just needed some oil, and it’s good to go! I found the price honest, and I took it home. Here are some pictures. I have been using it for two weeks now, and the spring is getting more fluid too, because I made him do some fitness in fully winding and unwinding for some times, and grease got unclogged. Records flow effortlessly without ever slowing down. Glad that my future as a -poor 😆- collector just started! Looking forward, with time, to a Pathé and a portable! Thank you everyone again and I wish to you a good day. GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phonogfp Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Congratulations! That looks great - - George P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtA Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 WOW, that is a very nice, unusual machine - great start to a collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alang Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 A very nice way to start a collection. Congratulations! Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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