Jump to content

Any help about this Victor?


Ockeghem
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ockeghem

Greetings everyone, I’m new to the passion of talking machines, and about to start my journey in this amazing world with the purchase of a Victor gramophone a seller sent me the pictures of. 
I have a doubt which may seem banal but I really need an expert’s knowledge and can’t find any infos on the web:

aren’t victor machine supposed to have another kind of horn, rather than this brass one? I know of painted black cone-shaped steel horns with a brass bell on Victor machines, but never seen a flower-shaped one entirely made of brass like this is. The rest of the machine looks genuine though.

Can someone help me with my doubts, before I fall in an incautious mistake? 
thank you very much, have a good day!

O.

 

17A4A030-C340-4CD2-A583-E863193E11A1.jpeg

F6A9215C-088C-441D-905C-89EC1AA8E985.jpeg

CF9CFA2E-17D8-49A8-8E49-D94189F1A375.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neilvanstem

We could look it up in our books we own if we knew what that data plate says as far as model and SN. Neil

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

phonogfp

That is not a genuine Victor, but rather what is often called a "Frankenphone;" a machine made up from parts of several others - often of various brands.

 

Unless this is priced very, very cheaply, I'd walk away.  It's only value is in some of the parts.

 

George P.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ockeghem

Thank you very much, I was afraid of that… well it’s not very cheap actually (590€) so I’ll find another solution. I am very grateful for your quick answers, I’ll give you news! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valecnik
3 hours ago, Ockeghem said:

Thank you very much, I was afraid of that… well it’s not very cheap actually (590€) so I’ll find another solution. I am very grateful for your quick answers, I’ll give you news! 

Good that you inquired when you did.  So many people ask such questions after they have already spent a lot of money, only to find out they've purchased junk.

 

Given that you quote 590€ as the price, I assume you are somewhere in Europe.  In case you are not aware, there is a gramophone show in Rudesheim, Germany in a few weeks.  If it's not too far for you, you might find a very good quality HMV (European Victor) there.  However junk is sold there too.  You still need to be careful!  🙂

Edited by Valecnik
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ockeghem

Thank you for your precious help. Unfortunately Germany is a bit far away, in the next week I won’t be able to move, but I would really love to.

 

I have found an alternative from the same seller who’s a gramophone/jukebox etc. collector, and he’s got this Cockleshell Monarch for sale, I’m going to see it personally the next week. Price would be 900€. Here are some pictures, seems good to me but I would like to know what you think about it! Thanks again 🙂 

54987B18-F9EE-4D94-BA81-28A88AA69250.jpeg

F1D60095-0B55-40CB-9D4D-593BD3D7980D.jpeg

7FE45E8D-F0AA-460E-95E7-D189DFF28DFA.jpeg

167DD086-EBD6-4152-9282-3BC70F7314D3.jpeg

2182FEDE-A237-4D24-8336-681E7A29BD6F.jpeg

DE73CEB3-813E-4AB7-B78D-81E814BDE494.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

phonogfp

Well, this could be an improvement, but...

 

It's troubling that the crank-side of the machine is not shown.  Since the brake and speed control appear to be in unusual positions, and there's something patched up in the front left-hand corner, it suggests this example may have been re-motored. 

 

The back bracket is a U.S. component rather than a nickel-plated HMV. 

 

I'd definitely ask for pictures of the crank side, and the motor as well.

 

There's an awful lot to learn about antique phonographs/gramophones, and it can be perilous for newcomers.  The investment in good books on the subject can save a lot of wasted money and heartache.  In this case, a look at page 30 of His Master's Gramophone, by Brian Oakley and Christopher Proudfoot would show you the problems with this machine.  If you're interested in HMV machines, I'd highly recommend this book to you.

 

George P.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valecnik

I agree with phonogfp, Ockeghem.  Take your time.  Ask a lot of questions.  Ask for a lot of pictures.  Study the books.  His Master's Gramophone is an excellent reference if you can find it.

 

Cheers!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mainspring

I can completely understand your excitement to buy your first machine and the temptations you face in your search but if you buy smart now, you will get far more enjoyment from your collection down the road. I have serious doubts about the pictured machine for all the reasons the other gentlemen stated. Good luck.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tinfoilphono

I'd also point out that the decal on that horn is upside down, since it's on the wrong side. Which means that horn did not originally go with the elbow to which it is attached. The machine is much better than the outright frankenphone in the first set of pictures, but it's been cobbled to some extent. At the price, you could do much better.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for your precious replies, I’ll go see this gentleman in person and see what he has among his 70 machines, take a look at all the details and take some pictures to think it through. I’ll keep you posted! I’ll try (hard!) not to surrender to the excitement of my first purchase! He has two beautiful (and seemingly original, by looking at them) Pathéphone 4, but the idea of purchasing a Pathé always leaves me some perplexities concerning the type of soundbox, and the impossibility to play sideway cut records… too bad because I find them so beautiful and touching… 

 

By the way, I have another question: I see around some gramophones with the horn directly attached to the reproducer (like the earlier ones) rather than with a tonearm. Someone can tell me the actual difference in terms of sound or disc wear? Do you think they are still valid for use, maybe with a horn that’s not too large? 
thanks!
 

Edited by Ockeghem
Completing content
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/10/2021 at 7:57 PM, Ockeghem said:

 

 

By the way, I have another question: I see around some gramophones with the horn directly attached to the reproducer (like the earlier ones) rather than with a tonearm. Someone can tell me the actual difference in terms of sound or disc wear? Do you think they are still valid for use, maybe with a horn that’s not too large? 
thanks!
 

Do you mean something like this?  They are very attractive but not the greatest for enjoying records.  They don't sound great and are very hard on the records.

 

Victor MS.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...