Seized mandrel pot metal bushing

[Rudy]

I have a model D Edison phonograph and the mandrel shaft is seized in the pot metal bearing/ bushing.  Could you possibly give me any suggestions on how to remove the mandrel without destroying the machine.   Any help would be appreciated.  Below are pictures of my machine.  Thank you.

[phonogfp]

Hello Rudy,

 

Welcome to the APS Forum!

 

Your machine is an Edison "Standard" Model D, and you can count yourself lucky since this is the easiest type on which to successfully complete this repair.

 

If you don't already have one, you will need a new bearing.  I get mine from Ron Sitko, but here are a few reputable suppliers (in no particular order):

 

Ron Sitko
56 Church Hill Road.
Waterford NY 12188
Telephone (518) 371-8549
(No web address.  Call weeknights after 7pm Eastern.)

 

http://wyattsmusical.com/

http://www.victroladoctor.com/

 

Now, with your shiny new bearing at hand, and properly sized screwdrivers, you can begin...

 

1) Remove the large set screw/oil plug on top the casting immediately to the left of the mandrel.

 

2) Loosen the small set screw on the upper pulley (immediately to the left of the casting with the oil plug) and the set screw on the tandem gears at the left end of the mandrel shaft.  Slide the gears to the right so they cannot contact the rest of the gear cluster.  Slide the pulley to the left so it will not contact the casting.

 

3) Remove the top set screw, adjusting screw, and the center bearing at the extreme left end of the mandrel shaft.  (You will need a VERY fine-bladed screwdriver for the adjusting screw.)  Now the left end of the mandrel shaft should be hanging in space.

 

4) Check the swollen pot metal bearing that you're replacing.  Sometimes they extend 1/4" or so to the left of the casting.  If it's cracked or has missing pieces, take a flat-bladed screwdriver or a punch and CAREFULLY tap pieces off the bearing.  Sometimes you'll get lucky and the bearing will practically fall apart in place and your job is easy.  Don't count on this, but it sometimes happens.

 

5) Now that the left end of the mandrel shaft is free, and the visible portion (if any) of the bearing has been chipped away, you can grasp the mandrel firmly and CAREFULLY work it and the shaft in a gentle circular motion.  Think of a reaming action, as if you were trying to remove a stuck drill bit from a piece of wood.  Slow, gentle repetition is the key, rather than abrupt, cave-man moves.  A little finesse will pay big dividends here.

 

6) Now you are either celebrating, or thinking, "Why isn't this working?"  Don't despair.  I've had them come out with about 10 seconds of gentle movement - - and I've also spent a half-hour of gently coaxing the darn thing.  It all depends on the nature of that particular batch of pot metal.  Just be patient, and that steel mandrel shaft will eventually convince that soft pot metal to give up.

 

7) On one occasion, the mandrel came off the shaft in my hand.  I was not happy.  However, the good news is that the mandrel is a press-fit on the shaft, so if this should occur, just set it aside and continue to work the shaft inn that bearing.  You can press the mandrel back on later.

 

Use the proper sized screwdrivers, be patient and gentle, firmly work that mandrel shaft round and round in the bearing, and you should do well.  Please report back on your results, or your need for further direction.

 

Best of luck!

 

George P.

[melvind]

George a very nice explanation. Good information to have.

[Rudy]

40 minutes ago, phonogfp said:

Hello Rudy,

 

Welcome to the APS Forum!

 

Your machine is an Edison "Standard" Model D, and you can count yourself lucky since this is the easiest type on which to successfully complete this repair.

 

If you don't already have one, you will need a new bearing.  I get mine from Ron Sitko, but here are a few reputable suppliers (in no particular order):

 

Ron Sitko
56 Church Hill Road.
Waterford NY 12188
Telephone (518) 371-8549
(No web address.  Call weeknights after 7pm Eastern.)

 

http://wyattsmusical.com/

http://www.victroladoctor.com/

 

Now, with your shiny new bearing at hand, and properly sized screwdrivers, you can begin...

 

1) Remove the large set screw/oil plug on top the casting immediately to the left of the mandrel.

 

2) Loosen the small set screw on the upper pulley (immediately to the left of the casting with the oil plug) and the set screw on the tandem gears at the left end of the mandrel shaft.  Slide the gears to the right so they cannot contact the rest of the gear cluster.  Slide the pulley to the left so it will not contact the casting.

 

3) Remove the top set screw, adjusting screw, and the center bearing at the extreme left end of the mandrel shaft.  (You will need a VERY fine-bladed screwdriver for the adjusting screw.)  Now the left end of the mandrel shaft should be hanging in space.

 

4) Check the swollen pot metal bearing that you're replacing.  Sometimes they extend 1/4" or so to the left of the casting.  If it's cracked or has missing pieces, take a flat-bladed screwdriver or a punch and CAREFULLY tap pieces off the bearing.  Sometimes you'll get lucky and the bearing will practically fall apart in place and your job is easy.  Don't count on this, but it sometimes happens.

 

5) Now that the left end of the mandrel shaft is free, and the visible portion (if any) of the bearing has been chipped away, you can grasp the mandrel firmly and CAREFULLY work it and the shaft in a gentle circular motion.  Think of a reaming action, as if you were trying to remove a stuck drill bit from a piece of wood.  Slow, gentle repetition is the key, rather than abrupt, cave-man moves.  A little finesse will pay big dividends here.

 

6) Now you are either celebrating, or thinking, "Why isn't this working?"  Don't despair.  I've had them come out with about 10 seconds of gentle movement - - and I've also spent a half-hour of gently coaxing the darn thing.  It all depends on the nature of that particular batch of pot metal.  Just be patient, and that steel mandrel shaft will eventually convince that soft pot metal to give up.

 

7) On one occasion, the mandrel came off the shaft in my hand.  I was not happy.  However, the good news is that the mandrel is a press-fit on the shaft, so if this should occur, just set it aside and continue to work the shaft inn that bearing.  You can press the mandrel back on later.

 

Use the proper sized screwdrivers, be patient and gentle, firmly work that mandrel shaft round and round in the bearing, and you should do well.  Please report back on your results, or your need for further direction.

 

Best of luck!

 

George P.

 

[Rudy]

Thank you George for the info. Should I get anew bearing before removing the old one ?

[phonogfp]

54 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Thank you George for the info. Should I get anew bearing before removing the old one ?

 

While not absolutely necessary, I prefer to have all the parts I need ready to go before disassembly to reduce the chance of something being lost or otherwise misplaced while I wait for delivery.  It's a obsessive/compulsive thing, I suppose!?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, phonogfp said:

 

While not absolutely necessary, I prefer to have all the parts I need ready to go before disassembly to reduce the chance of something being lost or otherwise misplaced while I wait for delivery.  It's a obsessive/compulsive thing, I suppose!?

Not to mention the whole "Now, where did that go?" problem...

[Analogous]

Welcome, Rudy.  George's instructions are spot on.

 

I promise you that the moment you successfully remove the mandrel, you're going to want to have that replacement bearing to get the machine running.  So follow George's advice and get a new one first from one of the sources he recommends.

 

I do extractions like this with a can of Liquid Wrench nearby.  It has a lower viscosity than machine oil and helps once it gets down into the bearing.  Put a few drops to the left of the bearing and down the oil plug.  It makes the job more messy but can also make it less scary.

 

Let us know how it turns out!

 

John