Terminology

[Chrisingramci]

After reading a post on a related Facebook page, I’m impelled to ask a question. We always referred to the Victor II in my dad’s den as a “Victrola.” Since I took possession of it, I’ve learned that it is not the proper term. I then started calling it a “phonograph.” But that aforementioned Facebook post seems to imply that, technically, that term really applies to cylinder players. I’m more than happy to display my ignorance in the quest to learn new things. When I call it a “talking machine” I get blank stares in return. So, what should I call my Victor II? “Antique record player” has been suggested before, but is there a more fitting term? Thanks; I look forward to your input!

[phonogfp]

The main problem is differing terminology in different parts of the world.  I'm an American and I've always referred to what I collect as "antique phonographs."  Note the small "p."  When referring in print to an Edison machine, I call it a "Phonograph."  I refer to Victors and Victrolas as "antique phonographs."  I believe most American collectors use the same terminology...I learned it from them!

 

Here is a glossary of terms that Tim Fabrizio and I developed for our first book.  Note the definitions for "Gramophone," "Phonograph," and "Talking Machine."

 

I hope this will be helpful.    - And good on you for wanted to educate yourself!

 

George P.

[melvind]

Glossery of terms seems to be missing...

[RodPickett]

Terminology

[ken53092]

I believe I responded to this topic on Facebook but here goes again for the benefit of anyone who wonders about the same thing.  The letters "ola" came to be interpreted by the public as a signal that the Victor phonograph in question had an internal horn.  This interpretation was so widespread that when Edison introduced his first internal horn player, one that played cylinders, he called it the AmberOLA (Amberola).  Generally speaking the Victor company would identify internal horn machines as Victrolas and often times you will see the designation "V V" on the faceplates followed by the numerical designation of the machine. Those stood for "Victor Victrola".  They weren't always on the faceplates, the Vic IV is one example where the plate simply reads Vic IV but the use of V V is quite common for victrolas.  So it's all about internal vs. external horns.  OLA's are always going to be internal horn machines. 

[Chrisingramci]

Thanks, George; your glossary is most useful. Given that the primary purpose of language is to be understood, it seems to me that, while perhaps technically incorrect, “phonograph” is the term that most clearly and  to the broadest audience describes my machine..

 

Best,

 

Chris

[phonogfp]

Thanks for adding the link, Rod.  I must have passed out on the keyboard.

 

George P.

[MisterJive47]

On this side of the pond, the most universal term is certainly "phonograph". On the European side of things, gramophone seems to be more accepted. Edison claimed the former and Columbia the latter in copyright/patent, so that officially left Victor with the "Talking Machine" nomenclature until the advent of the internal phonograph as I understand it.

[Granby]

In my small circle of fellow collectors/friends, the external horn Victor phonographs are usually referred to as "Victors."  Example: "Hey, did you buy that Victor you saw last week at the auction?"  They also had some nice Victrolas available, too...."  The concept is that the internal horn machines are Victrolas and the external horn machines are Victors [speaking of VTM products]. 

 

To expand, my interpretation is that all wind up records players are phonographs and anything more specific is a "brand" name.  Of course, when I am speaking with the general public, I explain that I collect "old victrolas."  They usually don't have any idea what I talking about if I were to say I purchased a Columbia Grafonola or Aeolian, LOL.  When I go way out in the country hunting for antiques, I ask, "you don't have any old Victrolas in here, do you?" They know what I mean - no reason to complicate it in that particular setting... LOL
 

[phonogfp]

10 hours ago, MisterJive47 said:

On this side of the pond, the most universal term is certainly "phonograph". On the European side of things, gramophone seems to be more accepted. Edison claimed the former and Columbia the latter in copyright/patent, so that officially left Victor with the "Talking Machine" nomenclature until the advent of the internal phonograph as I understand it.

 

I've never encountered period Columbia documentation where the company used the "gramophone" nomenclature.  Graphophones, Disc Graphophones, Business Graphophones (later Dictaphones), and Grafonolas, but never "gramophones."

 

George P.

[MisterJive47]

11 hours ago, phonogfp said:

 

I've never encountered period Columbia documentation where the company used the "gramophone" nomenclature.  Graphophones, Disc Graphophones, Business Graphophones (later Dictaphones), and Grafonolas, but never "gramophones."

 

George P.

I guess not as a branding, George. You're right. I think they just referred to them as such to avoid Edison's legal team. This ad for example uses the term, but brands it as a Grafonola as you said.

[phonogfp]

Mr. Jive,

 

I can't make out the publication where that ad appeared.  Is it from the U.S.?

 

George P>

[RodPickett]

It appears to be U.K. due to the currency mentioned and the "Special Invitation" to an address in London.

[MisterJive47]

2 hours ago, phonogfp said:

Mr. Jive,

 

I can't make out the publication where that ad appeared.  Is it from the U.S.?

 

George P>

As RodPickett said, it appears UK or "continental". Here's another one that is from a different seller in the UK. This one is legible as being from "The Sphere" magazine in November of 1929.

[phonogfp]

Yes - a U.K. publication would be using the "gramophone" terminology.

 

George P.

[MisterJive47]

2 hours ago, phonogfp said:

Yes - a U.K. publication would be using the "gramophone" terminology.

 

George P.

I fear that I might be suffering from a "Mandela Effect" scenario here. 😂😅

[phonogfp]

😉