Prototype or Patent Model Edison Concert Phonograph???

[lmikecorbin]

Well, this my first time asking for advice about a phonograph. I purchased this phonograph on a "Donley Auction" on March 20, 2023. I received it a couple of days ago and am at a loss as to what it might be. I don't know anywhere better to ask than the members of this forum. I have been collecting for over 30 years and this is the first of this type of phonograph that I have come in contact with. Here is how it was described online" This unusual machine resembles an early Edison Concert cylinder phonograph. Upper works and bedplate appear to be fabricated out of steel plate, not the usual castings. Brass carriage and mandrel. Early Edison-style automatic reproducer with some variance in modifications. Good stylus. Motor appears complete and as with the upper mechanism, the motor castings also appear to be fabricated. Cabinet and cover appear to be hand-built. Overall good condition with original golden oak finish. Small accessory drawer. Missing winding crank. This machine appears to either be a prototype or patent model?? Nicely built by someone with very advanced skills. Base measures approximately 12 3/4" x 18" and with lid, approximately 18" H." I am fascinated as to how this was hand built. What it turns out to be, I am very happy with it. I will include photographs with this article and am asking for your thoughts. Thanks for reading this.

 

[Valecnik]

Super interesting piece.  That reproducer might be stamped with an "N" for North American.  Can't tell for sure from the pic.  Also it appear it is stamped out and re-stamped with the same number opposite.  Very cool.

 

[phonogfp]

That is indeed an interesting machine!

 

Note how the upper works is fashioned primarily from sheet metal and bar stock (end gate and lower brace) so that a foundry's services would not be required.  But the motor seems to have cast parts!  The carriage is cast brass as well.

 

I'd be interested to know if the hardware is SAE or metric.

 

Whatever it is and wherever it came from, it's definitely an attention-grabber.

 

George P.

[RodPickett]

But why go through the effort and cost is the question?   Definitely an interesting piece. 

[phonogfp]

4 hours ago, RodPickett said:

But why go through the effort and cost is the question?   Definitely an interesting piece. 

 

That's the big question.  We showed several hand-built period phonographs in our books; a few of them exquisitely crafted.  I always wondered, "WHY?"  My best guess is that someone enjoyed the project and derived a lot of satisfaction from completing it.

 

George P.

[Tinfoilphono]

That is fascinating. I obviously don't know the true story, but I'm inclined to doubt that it was made at the Edison factory. I'd wager it's an expertly-crafted homemade machine by a very skilled machinist -- of whom there were a lot in the 1890s. I imagine that someone figured they could make their own for less than the cost of a factory machine. But that's just my guess. For sure, it's a show-stopper and I'd be happy to have it in my own collection! 

[Valecnik]

I shared this post  with Steve Medved, being pretty certain he could tell us a bit more about the story with the reproducer.  His comments are below, extracted from his email reply.  

 

"As you know the difference between the Standard Speaker and the Automatic Reproducer is the position of the lug holding the hinge arm for the weight.  These tops have a notch for a centering pin.  What happened to this reproducer was the person with these parts started to make a Standard Speaker, they stamped the top N with the 6380 and drilled the hole and installed the locating post.  After this happened, they realized they had the parts for an Automatic.  So the factory stamped the serial number on the other side, obscured the serial number ground the locating post flat and plated it again.  If they drilled for the arm you will see arm screw holes on both sides.  I have seen this once before.

 

It is important you know the difference between a standard speaker and an automatic reproducer.  The bodies are the same but the lug is 180 degrees out.  They were both made at the same time from 1892 until 1898.

 

 It is also extremely important that you know that the standard speakers from around 4,000 to 8,000 have an N above the serial number and a post in the top. 

 

Remember, this reproducer cost more than a day wages.  Edison never wasted."

 

So...  we don't solve the mystery of your machine certainly sheds some light on the reproducer origins.  

 

[lmikecorbin]

I would like to thank all of you who have taken the time to view my new (to me) phonograph. It sets next to my Spring Motor machine now. I had to carry it upstairs to my phonograph floor, and this thing is really heavy. Luckily I didn't drop it. I will be going to the show in Wayne, NJ., the end of this month. I hope that I will be able to find a crank to work on this machine along with a lot of other items on my list for other phonographs. I want to say to those who were kind enough to leave a comment that they are very much appreciated. I didn't know what to expect but I do appreciate the information you provided. I hope this will not be the end of the game here. Please, of anyone has any thoughts concerning this machine, I would very much like to know them. It is difficult for me to think that this machine has been setting in somebody's house for the past 125 years without a picture or a comment made to someone about it. It's just to irregular to ignore. Thanks again.

[MisterJive47]

Thanks for sharing this. Congratulations on winning this machine at Donley's. Certainly a unique piece, especially with it being in the concert format. It would be interesting to see an article about homemade or prototype model period machines such as these in the APS Quarterly.