Can Acoustic machines play the 78s from the 40s

[PeterN]

I am new to the hobby, and have a Victor Victrola VV-90 (ca. 1922). I would like to play some Al Jolson disks from 1946 but I don't know if they will play without damaging them as they were made in the "electronic phonograph" era where the tone arm pressure was likely less.

 

Any advice?

[Henry]

You've opened the proverbial "can of worms" with your question, as you'll soon discover from what I suspect will be numerous responses on all sides of the issue. I can only speak from my own experience, as the owner of a VV-XI (model G, 1917), which is essentially similar to your VV-90. I play 78s from all eras, both acoustic and electric, with soft-tone steel needles (fresh one for every 12" side; same needle for both sides of a 10"). The only 78s that you cannot play on an acoustic machine are the late vinyl ones from toward the end of the 78 era; the pickup is too heavy and the vinyl will be irreparably damaged. I play my jazz and big band 78s from the 1920s-'30s'-'40s without ill effects.

 

On the other hand, if you do happen to wear out your Jolson records, you can have mine! Not my favorite. Happy listening!

[phonogfp]

There was a recent thread here on this topic, which you can read here; just click on the box below:

 

 

As Henry mentioned, opinions and feelings can be surprisingly intense on this subject, running from "You must do such and such or you're morally inferior!" to "It's my property and I can do anything I please with it - - especially if it irritates YOU!"

 

There's no question that some people in the 1930s, 40s, and even 1950s played current records on machines built in the 1920s or earlier.  There's also no question that the practice wore out a good many records - which weren't considered valuable at the time.  Many people purchased new accessory sound boxes for their older machines (such as "Nu-Phonic" and a host of other brands) to play electrically-recorded discs.  These newer sound boxes/reproducers performed better and were kinder to electrically-recorded discs.  But by the late 1940s, 78s were being pressed from refined shellac with no added abrasives, and eventually vinyl, both of which suffered under the weight of early acoustic sound boxes/reproducers. 

 

All this is to say that playing your 1946 Al Jolson discs on your VV-90 will wear them more than playing them on a later or period-matched machine would.  Still, Jolson Deccas are plentiful and of low value.  Far more important (in my opinion anyway) is to clean the records if dirty, and change the steel needle with every play. 

 

And don't play Elvis Sun labels on it...

 

The fact that you asked your question suggests that at the end of the day, you'll probably have a more rewarding experience in the hobby knowing that you enjoyed playing your records but didn't needlessly damage them more than necessary.  Have fun!

 

George P.

[PeterN]

Thankyou Henry and George for your insight.

 

I got my VV-90 at an auction a number of years ago, and have been waiting for the time to go through it.  I haven't played any records on it yet, but wanted some insight on which era's of records would work on it. It came with a British H.M.V. #4 sound box (with an all-brass body), which would have not been original to the machine (should have been a Victor #2 I believe). So the H.M.V. #4 would have been the best one to use, at the time the electrically recorded disks came out, when played on this machine. I need to get some "soft tone" needles as I only have the "medium tone" (standard?) ones.

 

I am now working on the motor, I have it cleaned and springs greased, but am not sure what to lube the motor external gears with. Reasearch suggests the red #2 synthetic grease would be good for the main spring gear that drives the spindle. I will likely use a lighter Lithium grease on the governor gears (one rebuilder/collector says that Victor used something like straight vaseline). I plan to use a synthetic oil (Liquid Bearings) every else.

 

When the machine is working, I may experiment with a plastic duplicate of the #4 (3D printed) to see how a lighter sound box would work with the 40's shellac records. I have seen that others have had success in this area.

 

Regards,

Peter

[phonogfp]

Peter,

If you haven't already discovered them, the APS website has a number of free articles geared toward newcomers.  This one is especially helpful:

 

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

 

Asking 10 collectors for their lubrication recommendations will get you 10 different answers.  I am, however, surprised that anyone would recommend grease on a governor.  I (and many others) use synthetic light oil (such as Tri-Flow, Lubit-8, etc) on the governor and the fine-tooth gear that drives it.

 

Good luck!

 

George P.

[PeterN]

GeorgeP,

 

  Thanks for the link. I hadn't got to that one yet.

 

  The Victor lubrication instructions (in the manual and on the motor board) say to use "Victor Motor Grease" on all exposed motor gears and "Victor Spring Motor Oil" in all bearing locations. Since an internet search reveals no mention of these and/or modern equivalents, I expect that your comment on lubrication choice being based on personal preference is likely correct.

 

Regards,

Peter