Reproducer to Record Compatibility Chart

[PeterPoggi]

Hi,

I'm very new to this fascinating hobby, acquiring new information every day.  Like just learning the difference between the thick Edison records and the early Victor records. I'm always looking for tutorials and basics. 

 

I was told that the newly restored Orthophonic reproducer on my Credenza should not be used on later year (40's -50's) recordings, as it can damage the aluminum diaphragm.   This caused me to wonder if there exists a Victor cross-reference that shows, at least for acoustical machines, which reproducers will physically attach (work) on each machine, and which types of records may be played using that reproducer? Maybe how to identify each type of record?   

 

It would be even better if it addressed Edison machines but my specific need is for the Victor 

[CurtA]

Basically, any acoustic Victor or other brand of reproducer that uses steel needles is able to play 78rpm "shellac" records (late 1890s-early 1930s that were acoustically recorded.  The problem of incompatibility comes into play with later electrically recorded records and records that are produced from a more plastic material like those in the '40s and '50s.  That is when vinyl records started coming out.  Records that are electrically recorded are typically identified as such on the labels.

 

I don't know if what you heard is true about aluminum diaphragms (I have never heard that), but what IS true about later records is that they can be damaged by steel needles in acoustic reproducers.  Later records are made to play with light weight electronic cartridges.  

 

Shellac records are purposely designed to wear the point of a steel needle and the needle is designed to be used once or maybe twice, then discarded.  

 

Edison Diamond Disc records can only be played with a re-useable diamond stylus, generally on a Edison DD machine that was designed for them or a modern turntable with the correct cartridge .  Playing them with steel needles will not work and will destroy them.

[PeterPoggi]

3 hours ago, CurtA said:

Basically, any acoustic Victor or other brand of reproducer that uses steel needles is able to play 78rpm "shellac" records (late 1890s-early 1930s that were acoustically recorded.  The problem of incompatibility comes into play with later electrically recorded records and records that are produced from a more plastic material like those in the '40s and '50s.  That is when vinyl records started coming out.  Records that are electrically recorded are typically identified as such on the labels.

 

I don't know if what you heard is true about aluminum diaphragms (I have never heard that), but what IS true about later records is that they can be damaged by steel needles in acoustic reproducers.  Later records are made to play with light weight electronic cartridges.  

 

Shellac records are purposely designed to wear the point of a steel needle and the needle is designed to be used once or maybe twice, then discarded.  

 

Edison Diamond Disc records can only be played with a re-useable diamond stylus, generally on a Edison DD machine that was designed for them or a modern turntable with the correct cartridge .  Playing them with steel needles will not work and will destroy them.

 

[PeterPoggi]

Thanks Curt, 

Do you know whether all the Victor reproducers are built in a way that enables them to be swapped?  Aside from the obvious sound quality differences, can I physically put an Exhibition reproducer on my Orthophonic player? Or will my Orthophonic reproducer fit on a Victor VV-VI?

 

[phonogfp]

Curt pretty much says it all.  The assertion that aluminum diaphragms can be damaged by playing electrically-recorded discs is a new one for me as well.  40s-50s recordings will probably be damaged by the steel needle, but the aluminum diaphragm should be fine.

 

There's a contingent (especially active on various Facebook groups) that is vociferous in its advocacy for playing period-consistent records on machines from various time frames.  While technically and historically correct, and certainly a better route for conservation, some of these proponents sometimes sacrifice good manners on the altar of their zeal.  Don't be put off by such finger-wagging; they mean well.  Everyone learns about this stuff sooner or later.

 

Victor Exhibitions and Orthophonic sound boxes are not readily interchangeable, however, some collectors have made reversible modifications to allow this.  I've never done it, but it involves a short sleeve as an adapter.  Keep in mind, however, that an Orthophonic sound box on a VV-VI will not deliver the same reproduction as the same sound box paired with an exponential horn as found on the later Orthophonic Victrolas.

 

Welcome to the APS Forum!

 

George P.

[PeterPoggi]

13 hours ago, phonogfp said:

Curt pretty much says it all.  The assertion that aluminum diaphragms can be damaged by playing electrically-recorded discs is a new one for me as well.  40s-50s recordings will probably be damaged by the steel needle, but the aluminum diaphragm should be fine.

 

There's a contingent (especially active on various Facebook groups) that is vociferous in its advocacy for playing period-consistent records on machines from various time frames.  While technically and historically correct, and certainly a better route for conservation, some of these proponents sometimes sacrifice good manners on the altar of their zeal.  Don't be put off by such finger-wagging; they mean well.  Everyone learns about this stuff sooner or later.

 

Victor Exhibitions and Orthophonic sound boxes are not readily interchangeable, however, some collectors have made reversible modifications to allow this.  I've never done it, but it involves a short sleeve as an adapter.  Keep in mind, however, that an Orthophonic sound box on a VV-VI will not deliver the same reproduction as the same sound box paired with an exponential horn as found on the later Orthophonic Victrolas.

 

Welcome to the APS Forum!

 

George P.

Thank you George. That helps. It was just curiosity more than anything else.  On to my next question - in another thread 🙂