Sonora Identification and Repair (Beginner)

[samnicho5]

Hey Curt! 
 

I do have the parts to the missing grill, they just don’t match up perfectly. (Photo below) I’m currently in college so I got in touch with a couple people who have far more experience with wood than I do and I think we’re going to try to laser scan it to get an accurate copy first then proceed with the repairs in a similar fashion from there keeping it as original as possible. I got in contact with George and he’s on vacation until May  so he may not be an option currently. I also still need everything for the tone modifier, the cabinet key, and just some random misc things. I also got in touch with Tom Rutkowski who although is too busy to physically repair or replace my grill, did offer me a tremendous amount of advice and some supplies so I can use those as well. 

I originally feared I was missing the lid prop but actually, the wooden washer at the top of the lid had busted causing the prop to fall down into its internal groove. I had planned on replacing it until I removed the motor board to see it was still there in operational condition! I’m planning on reattaching it with a similar flower shaped washer however hopefully  3D printed in metal (thank goodness for having access to fun equipment and excellent people to ask for help while in college). 

The information about repairing the grille is excellent thank you! i think that’s a much easier way of getting the curve of the grill well. 

 

As for cleaning the shellac 78’s with WD-40, how will I know if it’s messing up the record? (Even though you say it won’t and I believe you, I’m just not sure what to look for) I have one record that is cracked slightly on the edge however when it plays for the first maybe 15 seconds (I didn’t realized it was cracked until I played it). Would this be something I should avoid playing/cleaning with a solution? 
 

Thanks, 

Sam

[samnicho5]

Also, I’m slightly afraid of overwinding the mainspring. Sometimes I wind it until I start to feel resistance but it doesn’t play all the way through the record. The only thing I didn’t open to look at on the motor was the spring box itself. Should I run it all the way down and then open it up to look? (It also means it was the only thing I didn’t add grease/oil/ or lube to). 
 

Edited to add:

The auto brake pedal also doesn’t work properly, sometimes it will stop before the end of the record. Is there a recommended way of tweaking the pedal attached to the tone arm so it will hit the auto break closer to the end of every record? I feel like I adjust it for one and then it’s too long or two short for others. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by samnicho5
Adding an additional question

[phonogfp]

I recommended this article on January 25, and I'm glad to do it again, but this time I'll also quote from it:

 

Newcomers to antique phonographs will often hesitate to wind the mainsprings too much. This is fine, but the mainsprings must be wound enough to provide sufficient power. Minimally, 25-30 revolutions of the crank should be enough to play one record. Motors with 2, 3 or 4 mainsprings can be wound 60, 90, or over 100 revolutions, although care should always be taken to avoid over-winding the mainspring. As the springs become fully wound, the operator will feel increasing resistance to cranking, followed by complete resistance. At that point, winding should stop. Except for small spring motors with single mainsprings, it shouldn’t be necessary to completely wind the motor. However, doing so should cause no damage as long as the mainspring is not forced beyond a fully wound state. One last word about mainsprings: these motors are in many cases over a century old. Mainsprings can and do break. New replacements are available at nominal cost, but their installation should be attempted only by a knowledgeable repair person. With yards of mainspring coiled tightly into a donut-size spring barrel, things can happen fast if it’s not properly controlled during removal – – sometimes resulting in injury. Let an expert handle it.

 

Here's the complete article:

 

https://www.antiquephono.org/basic-antique-phonograph-operational-tips/

 

 

[samnicho5]

I’ve read the article a couple different times but I’m unsure how many springs are in mine I guess. I get to about 20 and then it feels tight to me, I’m afraid of over winding it. I’ve never gone to the point where I cannot wind it. 

[CurtA]

Glad you have the lid prop, the end of mine was broken off and I had to rebuild it with epoxy putty.  I used a brass decorative rosette for the washer, since mine was completely missing.

 

Your question about WD-40 messing up your records is a non issue.  Once you play the record after cleaning, wipe it again to get the loosened crud out of the grooves.  It should play better than before with the added bit of lubrication.  Shellac records tend to dry out over 100 years and this just gives it a little replenishment.

 

Regarding the repair of cracked records, I discovered a method that works extremely well and I documented it in this thread on The Talking Machine Forum:  https://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8860

[samnicho5]

Thank you I’ll look into that. I only have a few so far that are cracked but only one affects the play quality. 

[CurtA]

Your grill looks fixable, if you decide to go that route.  Mine was broken into a lot more pieces and it turned out well.  My only question in replicating it in new wood is whether you can get the finish to match close enough.

[alang]

1 hour ago, samnicho5 said:

I’ve read the article a couple different times but I’m unsure how many springs are in mine I guess. I get to about 20 and then it feels tight to me, I’m afraid of over winding it. I’ve never gone to the point where I cannot wind it. 

Looking at your motor and also at the description in the original sales catalog, your motor should have two springs and the two spring barrels are connected together. Of course, without looking inside the spring barrels one never knows if someone has done some creative hillbilly fixing inside, but your motor looks ok otherwise, so I doubt that. Based on that, I would be surprised if your motor cannot be wound at least 40 or 50 revolutions. More resistance may just mean thickened dried grease that needs to be distributed. Of course, complete resistance means stop! Maybe you could try a few more revolutions each time you wind up until the grease has been fully redistributed?

 

Andreas

[CurtA]

Your question:  First, I'm starting to question if it's mahogany. It seems too light both in color and in weight.

 

Answer:  It IS mahogany and old mahogany tends to dry out over a century, becoming lighter in weight and color.  This model only came in oak or mahogany and yours is not oak.

[samnicho5]

Thank you! After oiling everything and playing lots of records, I’m able to wind my spring about 44 times every time it is completely unwound. I’m going to go ahead and reattach the  motor board to the cabinet since I believe there’s nothing else for me to do internally. I do believe it was the old spring grease just not being distributed well. Thanks so much! Currently, my mailroom has lost my package including my new mica diaphragm and gaskets. (Hopefully they’ll find it today.)   Also wow, I’ve just never seen mahogany that isn’t like a darker red shade so that’s why I was so skeptical. Additionally, I was able to pick up some goop to clean the entire cabinet and it looks so much better. It still has some dirt spots, I’ll go back and do again, but so far it’s much better! I don’t want to strip off the original varnish or refinish it because I want to keep some of the history and integrity of the piece however there are some scratches/gouges in one of the sides that slightly bother me as some of them just look like scratches and others looks like someone might have tried to repair it with a wood putty that lost its color. (There are other scratches too however they aren’t as bad as the side pictured below.) Would Howards Restor-a Finish work well on this or should I leave it alone? Additionally, would this shine the cabinet if I applied it all over? 

 

 

[Tinfoilphono]

That looks outstanding.

 

I've used Howard's in many applications and like the results. It's possible it might darken it a tad, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I highly recommend Howard's Feed 'n Wax as a final polish coat. It gives wonderful luster with minimal effort. 

[samnicho5]

Thanks! Hopefully my metal polish will come in today too so I can finish polishing everything today and give my arm a break before finishing the wood. By the end of this, I expect to at least have mastered the wax on wax off move. If I were to use Howards, would the mahogany likely be the best choice? Or should I go slightly lighter maybe with cherry? 

[samnicho5]

So today I finished cleaning all the metal (after receiving heavy duty Kotton Kleanser in the mail). Reinstalled all the metal hardware as I believe I’m done with that and verified its working. I also cleaned the sound reproducer and received the parts in the mail to replace the mica diaphragm. Well, the diaphragm I have is too small so I ended up just cutting the gasket material and installing it with my old mica diaphragm to make sure I cut it properly. I also attached the stand to the lid using a 3D printed part that will hopefully made of metal by the time I’m done. I think I’m nearing the end steps, I need to finish the wood grille (a long term project), maybe try to fix some of the scratches, polish the wood, refelt the table (when the felt arrives), and find the finishing missing pieces (the cabinet key, the tone modifier etc likely in May when George is available). Have I forgotten anything? I feel like I’ve flown through this mainly because the majority of it was working. I did however notice this tonight when cleaning, it appears the crank is rubbing the metal housing that surrounds it creating an awful gouge. The piece is still strong however in order to make sure this doesn’t continue to happen should I remove the housing or try to bend the crank more central? (It’s on the same side as all the scratches so I imagine it got bumped by something.)