Is it a Dance or an Edisonic? The Story of LD 12531 NS

[Valecnik]

I found what I thought was a gold wash Dance reproducer, lower left of picture, at the Union show a few years back.  That turned out to be only partially true.

 

 

I sent it to Steve Medved for a proper cleaning and restoration along with a few other Edison reproducers needing similar work.  At some point in our correspondence, he mentioned that he’d started working on “the gold Edisonic”, but I had not sent him an Edisonic.  I had sent a gold Dance, right?   Well… yes and no.

 

It turns out that this reproducer started life as Dance reproducer no. LD 12531, the LD for “Loud Dance”. However, it may have never left the factory that way. 

 

The shorter dance limit loop was removed and replaced with the slightly taller Edisonic limit loop. The Dance is notorious for skipping or bumping against the reproducer body or limit loop, causing damage to the records.  It is usually necessary to lower the height of the horn or place a 78 or something equivalently thick on the platter to center the limit pin.  Even if you do that, the next record you play might be a bit thicker or thinner requiring an additional adjustment.  The taller limit loop solves that problem.  In the below photo you can see the difference in size of the limit loops.  The nickel reproducer is an unconverted Dance.

 

Above - Comparison of limit loops, Dance (LD 11174) on left, Edisonic (LD 12531 NS) on right.

 

 

In addition, the Dance diaphragm was replaced with the Edisonic diaphragm.  The Dance diaphragm is the same thickness as the standard diaphragm requiring a second spring to maintain tension on the stylus.  One spring is on the stylus bar.  The second spring, shown in the photo below, hooks up to the not seen side of the diaphragm and a cross bar in the sound tube.   

 

Dance Diaphragm showing spring which connects to cross bar in sound tube

 

The Edisonic diaphragm is about .002 thicker and retains only the spring on the stylus bar. The Dance Diaphragm, shown below, also has a stiffened spring wrapped link.

 

Stiffened spring wrapped Dance Link on Dance Diaphragm

 

 

Closeup of Dance Reproducer link and spring

 

 

 

Finally, Edison stamped an “NS” at the end of the serial number and “LD 12531” became “LD 12531 NS”, the NS for “New Standard.  You can see it in the photo below.

Dance converted to Edisonic no. LD 12531 NS

 

Bar for hooking the upper spring from diaphragm on LD 12531 NS

 

 

Why do I think the conversion to Edisonic was done at the factory?  In addition to Steve’s observations over a period of years, there is that “NS” stamped into the body.  Also, I bought a second gold Dance, well sort of… sometime later, this one NOS in the original cardboard and wooden box you can see below.

 

Dance reproducer converted to Edisonic, never having been sold  - LD 12993 NS

 

Guess what?  Turns out it’s got the Edisonic diaphragm, limit loop and the body is stamped “LD 12993 NS”.  So… yes, it started out as a Dance and was converted to an Edisonic too, without ever having been sold!  A photo of it is just below.

 

Dance reproducer converted to Edisonic, never having been sold - LD 12993 NS

 

Now back to LD 12531 NS for a bit.  It is conversion to an Edisonic was not the end of the story.  Sometime later, probably in the thirties or forties, it was converted again, this time replacing the existing diaphragm with what is speculated to be an Edison factory aluminum diaphragm and linkage which were apparently used for repairs after Edison ran out of rice paper diaphragms but was still doing repairs.  An example of such a diaphragm is below.

 

Edison Aluminium replacement diaphragm

 

 

And finally, there is the very unusual diamond stylus I should mention original or from the 1930s?  The diamond is larger than normal and clear for reasons unknown to me.  Two photos just below.

 

LD 12531 NS unusually large clear diamond stylus

 

 

LD 12531 NS unusually large clear diamond stylus

 

 

Oh and how does it sound?  It sounds loud and full when compared against other Dance and Edisonics I have.

 

So in summary, do you have a Dance reproducer?  Are you sure?  Maybe you’d better look at it more closely.  Maybe you really have an Edisonic!

 

Many thanks to Steve for contributing lots of background information, providing several pictures and corroborating or correcting my draft.

 

 

[phonogfp]

Wow - that's the best comparison of these two reproducers I've ever read!  Thanks for sharing this information and the excellent images that make the differences clear. 

 

It's also interesting to learn of the factory conversions of the slow-selling Dance Reproducers.  Perhaps there was an inventory of Dance Reproducers that the company needed for Edisonic stock - - and the salesmen could certainly make the case that performance was comparable.

 

I had to run upstairs to check my nickel Dance Reproducer (LD3641), but it retains it original configuration.  I'd be interested in learning of nickel examples of the factory conversion.  I wonder if there was a comparatively large inventory of gold Dance Reproducers vs. nickel used for these conversions?

 

In any event, thanks again for this interesting essay on the subject!

 

George P.

[melvind]

A great post! Thanks.

[audiophile102]

This essay was a very interesting history lessen.  Thanks for taking the time to document it for the community.  

[Valecnik]

4 hours ago, phonogfp said:

Wow - that's the best comparison of these two reproducers I've ever read!  Thanks for sharing this information and the excellent images that make the differences clear. 

 

It's also interesting to learn of the factory conversions of the slow-selling Dance Reproducers.  Perhaps there was an inventory of Dance Reproducers that the company needed for Edisonic stock - - and the salesmen could certainly make the case that performance was comparable.

 

I had to run upstairs to check my nickel Dance Reproducer (LD3641), but it retains it original configuration.  I'd be interested in learning of nickel examples of the factory conversion.  I wonder if there was a comparatively large inventory of gold Dance Reproducers vs. nickel used for these conversions?

 

In any event, thanks again for this interesting essay on the subject!

 

George P.

I too would like to know a bit more what they were thinking when they converted them.  I would assume they were presented to potential buyers as "just like Edisonics" but who knows.  Were they discounted or sold at the same price?  Side by side comparison would demonstrate that the converted Dance sounded just as good as a regular Edisonic and better than an unconverted Dance.  Those springs tend to rattle  too on the Dance.  The Edisonic design tweaks really improved it.

 

Regarding finishes, I've only seen these two converted Dance reproducers in gold.  I've got another couple nickel Dance and another gold Dance that have not been converted.  Maybe others will check their Dances and comment?  Maybe Steve could add something too if he reads this.  We'll see.

[Fran604g]

That's very interesting Bruce, thanks for the educational post. 

 

Do you know what the "G" on the factory box signifies? 

 

Cheers,

Fran

[phonogfp]

2 hours ago, Fran604g said:

Do you know what the "G" on the factory box signifies? 

 

Cheers,

Fran

 

I think the "G" on the box indicates a gold finish.

 

George P.

[Valecnik]

4 hours ago, phonogfp said:

 

I think the "G" on the box indicates a gold finish.

 

George P.

Correct.  The boxes I've seen have been marked "G" for gold, "N" for nickel and "A" for antique or gun metal finish.

[Fran604g]

Thank you both! I guess I should've been smart enough to have guessed that, but I wasn't. ?

[Valecnik]

10 minutes ago, Fran604g said:

Thank you both! I guess I should've been smart enough to have guessed that, but I wasn't. ?

I had an antique finish Stardard reproducer with an "A" on the box for several years and never cracked the code until I'd picked up a few more in various finishes.  ?