Bettini Cylinders

[Diane]

Hello,
I am new to this forum and hoping someone could help with some information. Four Bettini were found in a crate with other Edison cylinders packed away in a wooden crate. They were found in a distant relative’s possessions covered with dust (no top was on crate) as I was clearing out the house. Since the four of these looked so different, I posted one, the empty cylinder, on eBay.
I received a message from a buyer saying this was a fantasy from the 1970s and immediately took the item down and reposted it with an update.

The person that owned these would have been in his 80s in the 70s and he never talked about nor did we ever see any antique phonographs, just found two horns that were in great disrepair.

I opened one of the three full cylinders and unwrapped the cotton from the wax cylinder. I’ve left the other two untouched. 
Any information would be appreciated.

Thanking you for your time..

Dee

[phonogfp]

I don't consider myself an authority on the variations of Bettini boxes, but I've been told by a couple of knowledgeable collectors that these boxes are fantasy pieces.  If so, I would encourage whoever winds up with them to destroy them, as they must have been made to deliberately deceive.  Had I found these in a shop, I'd have been fooled by the moldy cylinders wrapped in cotton. 

 

Diane, I hope your relative wasn't swindled.  Your willingness to append your eBay listing speaks well for your ethics.

 

George P.

[RodPickett]

Concur, on all points.

[phonoobsession]

That‘s what I think about these boxes too. They were made a long time ago (could be the 70s), but are fake labels.

[Diane]

Thanking all for your fast responses and information!

[Jerry]

Well, that's the story on the cartons, but what of the cylinders? Is it conceivable that someone in fact had some Bettini cylinders and simply wanted suitable looking cartons to place them in, (fake or not)? The moldy cylinder is not likely playable, but what do the others look like?

[phonoobsession]

There probably are collectors around who can tell from just looking at these brown wax cylinders if they are Bettini or not. If not, someone would have to check them personally and maybe even play them (though the conditon seems to be rather bad).

[Jerry]

26 minutes ago, phonoobsession said:

There probably are collectors around who can tell from just looking at these brown wax cylinders if they are Bettini or not. If not, someone would have to check them personally and maybe even play them (though the conditon seems to be rather bad).

Correct. I was hoping that one of those collectors, more informed than myself, might consider that and chime in on the cylinders themselves.

[Diane]

I did not want to open the other two cylinders as they appeared to look like they had never been opened, still having the paper type wrap on top of the cotton and folded perfectly. 
The one that I opened did not have the paper type wrapping on top of the cotton.  
The Edison cylinders that I found with these were obviously opened and used as some had no cotton, and others were wrapped, but not perfectly like the Bettinis. 

[phonoobsession]

Hi Diane,

I am currently investigating further on the topic of which Bettini labels are originals from the cylinder era and which are reprints from much later years. If you still have at least one of these boxes, can you please get in touch with me?

Thanks!

Helmut

Edited April 13 by phonoobsession

[Diane]

Hello Helmet,

Thank you for your offer to purchase the Bettini cylinders.

I am taking them to a museum that has some Bettini items in  their archives to  be looked at. 
Thanking everyone again on this forum for the information given to me. 
Diane 

[phonoobsession]

Hello Diane,

The collectors that have replied here are really some of the most experienced experts on the topic. As I did explain it to you in my messages, it is not easy at all to tell reprints from genuine labels, at least not with regard to this particular light blue Bettini label variation. I got photos and scans of this label from some of the best known collectors in the world. And even then I still wasn't able to get the final answer on this topic. So, don't get me wrong, but I doubt that a museum will be able to tell you whether these boxes are genuine or not. As this particular label is not seen very often (regardless if it is perhaps a reprint or original), I doubt that they have ever seen an example. And if they should, or even have one in their collection, they certainly can't tell for sure if it is an original either, as they can't compare it with other examples of it. If you'd let me have one of them, it would be very helpful for all collectors. So, however you decide and whatever the museum will tell you - I am still happy to agree with you on a deal for a box to hopefully find a reliable answer that still has to be found. Thank you!

Best wishes,

Helmut