Edison Tinfoil Phonograph 1878 (light restoration progress)

[AtRicky1]

I hope you guys don't mind but I thought I'd start a new thread to show restoration progress for https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/2276-edison-tinfoil-phonograph-1878/
 

This is in view of the fact that the earlier thread was getting quite long and it is more about as the apparatus as it is now rather than what it will be.

As I said in an earlier post I will not be removing the axle, due to the potential burring or shearing of  the axle bracket/bearing screws. The axle spins freely anyway. I will not be removing the wooden box either due to a similar problem.

Due to all the comments from you guys, my inexperience, cautious nature (even paranoia!) this what I propose so far - in order:
 

1. Cast and steel components - cleaning, light rust removal with first a plastic scouring pad, moving on to 0000 steel wool (I couldn't source brass), or Picreator Pre-Lim - the same manufacturer of Renaissance Wax, if it takes a little more effort to remove. In that order. If it's ingrained I will leave it. A few drops of WD-40 will be the lubricant. Even though WD-40 shouldn't do any damage to the japanned paintwork (earlier research), I've sourced some special  sensitive / no residue, low tackiness, masking tape to cover the paintwork. I need to research electrical tape too as that would be ideal, as it's a bit more sticky and bendy. No electrical buffing. https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/2276-edison-tinfoil-phonograph-1878/page/2/#findComment-9388
    
2. Brasswork. Tin foil mandrel, recorder surround, knurled lock wheel, axial clamp - first water, toothbrush. I really don't want to start dipping components in solution unless their patina will definitely not be affected. Flitz was recommended but I really didn't like some of the reviews/photos of discoloration. This I really would like advice on please.
    
3. Paintwork. Water only to start, cotton buds, micro fibre cloths. From my research just white / mineral spirit for any less easy areas. Special care around detailing obviously. I may not touch the writing at all. If any marks cannot be removed with light pressure then I will leave them.
    
4. Woodwork - drawer case - apart from light wipes with cotton buds or cloths and water I may leave this entirely. I would love to remove the drawer case but I'm concerned about burring or shearing the baseplate screws. From a photo I took, one had already sheared, leaving three of the four remaining intact. 
    
5. Recorder diaphragm / stylus. These will not be touched for the time being as they are too fragile. If I decide to record something on some foil then I might try and source some newer mica and a stylus just for that purpose.
    
6. Phonograph carrying case. Would love to know your thoughts on what to do with this. https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/2276-edison-tinfoil-phonograph-1878/page/2/#findComment-9383

 

Anyway please let me know if I am out order creating a new thread - or if I'm likely to bore you with it!

 

Edited Sunday at 02:23 PM by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

10 minutes work Just a pad and a few drops of WD40. Not bad!

There are a few very fine scratches at some points but I think these are from previous attempts at cleaning. The plastic pad doesn't seem to have made any, but has cleared the rust quickly. Anyway will move onto the 0000 wool for a light touch when finished. I'm glad I started on this first as it's the easiest to rectify now or later. 
 

Edited Sunday at 04:01 PM by AtRicky1

[Jerry]

I would try what you propose in #1, except I would NOT apply any tape, (low tack or otherwise), to any painted surfaces.

 For steps #2 - #5, I would do nothing at all. There is nothing wrong with it the way it is. 

[AtRicky1]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

I would try what you propose in #1, except I would NOT apply any tape, (low tack or otherwise), to any painted surfaces.

 For steps #2 - #5, I would do nothing at all. There is nothing wrong with it the way it is. 

 
Cheers Jerry and thanks for your earlier comments too. Noted about the tape. It was such low tack it really wasn't of much use anyway. I'm aware of any tape being left on for too long also. It was only on for a few hours and on removal it left nothing on either the tape or the paint. Visually the paint itself seems remarkably solid with no flaking anywhere. There is a little missing detailing but that is all.

The flywheel is now completely rust free apart from maybe a couple of brownish spots which I didn't want to remove as they were too close to the paintwork. There is very minor pitting but I'm guessing this is from the casting process rather than rust. I am not going to remove any minor scratches with 0000 or burnish with Pre-Lim. It looks good at it is and I want it to blend in with aesthetics of the remainder.

The axle is next - again just rust removal. 0000 seems to have done the trick so far. The steel is quite mottled but I think that should remain. It just looks old! The thread at the end I think just needs a microfibre cloth to remove the gunk from the grooves.

I'd asked for input on what to do with the brass mandrel. I've now decided just to clean it with a mf cloth to again remove the gunk from the grooves. Also the darker color at the ends shows that it would have tin foil on it presumably for quite a long time. History. I won't do anything else for the moment. No products. 

Paintwork. Even though I've have advice on products in the forum and myself done a lot of research, I'm going to limit any cleaning to just distilled water and cotton buds on a small area at the back on the base and see how we go. However, I may not even do that now.

 

The wooden base/drawer I'm leaving for now. It's dirty but likely will do nothing with it.

 

The carrying case is now going to stay as it is with all the white paint splashed over it. As I said - it's history.

More pics shortly.

Thanks again.

[Jerry]

Thanks for taking my advice in the helpful way that was intended. 

 

The partial clean-up of the flywheel looks very nice.

[AtRicky1]

OK the fruits of my labor (or labour!)

All the rust is now removed apart from two tiny spots on the flywheel, which were close to the paintwork, so I left those alone. Only a pad, 0000 wool and WD-40 used.

The small scratches on the cast iron was not me and I'm sure could easily be buffed out. However, I will not be doing this. To me it is perfect as it is.

 

The brown discoloration on the axle and collar is not rust. It is the light which is somehow making it look brown. I thought what appears to be black spots on the collar was black paint initially, but it is some deeper pitting, which obviously can't be dealt with.....and I'm not going to start welding!

 

The axle is in good shape, smooth but mottled. This isn't rust - it is something else and any amount of pressure with 0000 wool, did nothing to it. Although the axle thread looks almost the same as when I started on it, I spent some time brushing out the grooves with a small brass brush. I will do no further work on the axle.

 

The axle slides smoothly from stop to stop. The last macro image shows a small spiral groove, about an inch wide, which I would assume was made by some dirt getting behind the axle bracket and then rotated. I'm guessing no ball or roller bearings here! Would they have brass or other liners instead?  

 

As you can see from the photos of the mandrel the interior dirt has started to come off when I working at the ends of the shafts. Beautiful brass underneath. 

 

More on Wednesday probably.

[Jerry]

NICE!

[Tinfoilphono]

That looks absolutely great. You're doing this right, with great care. 

[AtRicky1]

1 minute ago, Tinfoilphono said:

That looks absolutely great. You're doing this right, with great care. 

So pleased to hear that from you René. Thanks.

[AtRicky1]

Ok the brass mandrel was going to be next but you will be delighted to know that I won't be cleaning it at all. Dipping, in anything and especially brass restorer, was out of the question for me - even If I was going to remove the axle/shaft. Too much risk. Potentially Vulpex as suggested or Castille soap would do the trick but I can't wash it off easily.

WD-40 was ill advised and isopropyl alcohol not recommended. My next option was distilled water (changed nothing) and white spirit (changed almost nothing). White spirit came up again as the most gentle of all products for brass. I used the refined version but it made so little impact with a microfiber cloth, and I wasn't going to start using 0000 wool or brushes. So, for the time being it stays as it is, grimy and tarnished. I'm not even going to brush out the grooves.

 

Next is the paintwork. Even more care on this as mentioned previously. Cotton buds, distilled water and I will see what that achieves. I'll bet very little. I'm also betting that white / mineral spirit - the best out of all the cleaning agents for japanned paint - it seems - will also have little effect. I will try cleaning a tiny portion 3-5mm of the lower baseplate near the mounting screw and see how I go. If no result, then the paintwork won't be done either.

 

Also if the grime can't come off then there's not much point in applying Renaissance wax, as it will probably push the dirt around or layer on top of it.

Unless you guys have any ideas? Will it clean partially as well?

 

Thanks muchly.
 

 

Types of White Spirit

Standard/Regular White Spirit (Type 0-1):

Contains 15-20% aromatic hydrocarbons (toluene, xylene, benzene-ring compounds)

Contains 80-85% aliphatic hydrocarbons (straight-chain compounds)

Strong kerosene-like smell (the aromatics)

Stronger solvent action—better at dissolving oils, waxes, greases

Slightly more toxic if inhaled heavily

Reduced Smell/Odourless White Spirit (Type 2-3):

Contains less than 5% aromatic hydrocarbons (heavily refined to remove aromatics)

Contains 95%+ aliphatic hydrocarbons (or purely aliphatic)

Minimal smell (some residual odour but much less)

Slightly weaker solvent action—still effective but less aggressive

Lower toxicity inhalation risk

Edited Wednesday at 04:17 PM by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

By the way. For close ups I use an my 4 year old Poco F3 phone, which is still going strong. It's the only phone I've ever found with a 5 megapixel macro camera. All others, AFAIK, even if they have a macro lens, are 2 megapixel.

[AtRicky1]

The start of the paintwork. Using magnifying glasses, distilled water and loads of cotton buds, gently wiped off with a microfibre cloth. Just this little section at the front left took over 2 hours. I tried a little white/mineral spirit on a tiny portion of gunk on the back of the plate. It had no effect. So I will not be using anything else apart from distilled water going forward. I examined every cotton bud and area after application and as far as I could tell there were no flakes of paint or detailing being removed. Just dirt. There are some chips in the detailing but these were already there.

 

Just using distilled water has still been very worthwhile. It hasn't got rid of some of the grime/oil deposits/whatever - see the photo with the arrow - but at least there is a little shine showing through. It still shows its use and age. Perfect I think. You can see the difference between the left hand side of the plate, which has been cleaned and the right hand side, which has not.

 

Edited 22 hours ago by AtRicky1

[phonogfp]

It looks great, Richard!  Nice work - -

 

George P.

[AtRicky1]

22 minutes ago, phonogfp said:

It looks great, Richard!  Nice work - -

 

George P.

 

Thanks George. Video coming....

[AtRicky1]

Not sure if you can stand 7 minutes of me talking!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VwPUen5i2W2xPVb5v9YTSBmExWJ5xUlM/view?usp=sharing

As I mention at the end everyone's comments, without exception, have been so much appreciated. 

[Tinfoilphono]

That looks absolutely fantastic. It's amazing how just a light cleaning brings up the original shine to that degree. 

 

The mouthpiece is made of gutta percha. Originally it was dark black, but gutta percha tends to turn brown (or sometimes greenish) over time, from UV exposure. It is not metal and scratches easily. I'm sure you are correct that the scratches in the center come from an exhibitor holding a horn against it for recording and playback.

[AtRicky1]

9 minutes ago, Tinfoilphono said:

That looks absolutely fantastic. It's amazing how just a light cleaning brings up the original shine to that degree. 

 

The mouthpiece is made of gutta percha. Originally it was dark black, but gutta percha tends to turn brown (or sometimes greenish) over time, from UV exposure. It is not metal and scratches easily. I'm sure you are correct that the scratches in the center come from an exhibitor holding a horn against it for recording and playback.

Thanks René. You are a mine of information! I've seen bakelite but never heard of gutta percha. Anyway, I will leave it well alone now i know.