Edison Tinfoil Phonograph 1878

[ChadShapiro]

Very nice machine. I noticed that you mentioned doing some restoration work yourself. If this were a common machine, refinishing the cabinet wouldn't have much consequence, as there would be plenty of original examples remaining, and those machines do not hold anywhere near the historical weight that your machine does. With a machine as historically important as yours, any removal of original finishes can greatly affect its value, both historically and monetarily. Simply put, refinishing the wood base would greatly affect the machine's amazing, all-original state for all future generations, never to be "undone". As for using any abrasives on the bare metal parts, a super-fine (0000) steel wool can be used, but I would recommend against it for now. The surface rust should be addressed, but not without input from a trained conservator. You have an extremely important machine that is one of the few surviving artifacts of the era, and the ability for future historians to be able to study it is greatly affected by any restoration or cleanup mishaps. I am happy to help recommend some conservation-grade cleaning agents if you do choose to do the work yourself. I would highly recommend against Castile soap. Castile soap contains oils, which are left behind on the surface. You do not want that on wood or painted surfaces, as those oils could be detrimental in the long term; anything that leaves behind traces of the cleanser should be avoided. Something like Vulpex soap leaves behind no trace once it evaporates, followed by a protective coating like Preactor Renaissance Wax is perfectly safe for all surfaces on your machine. Both of these products are used by conservators at major institutions and have decades of evidence that they do not harm any of the surfaces that exist on your phonograph. This is a machine that deserves careful conservation work, and in the code of ethics with conservation, all treatments should be fully reversible. This is an important enough machine that careful consideration should be made for any work that is to be performed on it. If you want to contact me directly, I am happy to help point you in the right direction, but I would advise you to be careful of using the typical freshen-up techniques and substances employed on more common machines - such treatments may be quick, inexpensive, and look nice, but they could also do irreversible damage to a machine with a monetary value that creeps into the six-figure range. 

 

Check your messages. I sent a few links to products that are safe to use here.

[phonogfp]

Richard,
 

I encourage you to follow Chad's advice.  He has a lot of experience with historically important machinery.  I'd trust any recommendations he might offer.

 

Best of luck!

 

George P.

[Goodstuff]

Congrats on a very important and historic artifact. As has been stated, I would avoid restoration on this machine. The impact on historical and monetary value would be significant. Do no harm is a good mantra. It has survived all this time in its original state under care. 

[Fran604g]

Incredible, thank you for sharing your good fortune with us. What a truly amazing piece of history!

 

Fran

[AtRicky1]

10 hours ago, ChadShapiro said:

Very nice machine. I noticed that you mentioned doing some restoration work yourself. If this were a common machine, refinishing the cabinet wouldn't have much consequence, as there would be plenty of original examples remaining, and those machines do not hold anywhere near the historical weight that your machine does. With a machine as historically important as yours, any removal of original finishes can greatly affect its value, both historically and monetarily. Simply put, refinishing the wood base would greatly affect the machine's amazing, all-original state for all future generations, never to be "undone". As for using any abrasives on the bare metal parts, a super-fine (0000) steel wool can be used, but I would recommend against it for now. The surface rust should be addressed, but not without input from a trained conservator. You have an extremely important machine that is one of the few surviving artifacts of the era, and the ability for future historians to be able to study it is greatly affected by any restoration or cleanup mishaps. I am happy to help recommend some conservation-grade cleaning agents if you do choose to do the work yourself. I would highly recommend against Castile soap. Castile soap contains oils, which are left behind on the surface. You do not want that on wood or painted surfaces, as those oils could be detrimental in the long term; anything that leaves behind traces of the cleanser should be avoided. Something like Vulpex soap leaves behind no trace once it evaporates, followed by a protective coating like Preactor Renaissance Wax is perfectly safe for all surfaces on your machine. Both of these products are used by conservators at major institutions and have decades of evidence that they do not harm any of the surfaces that exist on your phonograph. This is a machine that deserves careful conservation work, and in the code of ethics with conservation, all treatments should be fully reversible. This is an important enough machine that careful consideration should be made for any work that is to be performed on it. If you want to contact me directly, I am happy to help point you in the right direction, but I would advise you to be careful of using the typical freshen-up techniques and substances employed on more common machines - such treatments may be quick, inexpensive, and look nice, but they could also do irreversible damage to a machine with a monetary value that creeps into the six-figure range. 

 

Check your messages. I sent a few links to products that are safe to use here.

Chad - thanks also for spending time in giving me valuable advice. Castille soap is now relegated.

Renaissance Wax I was going to buy as it was also recommended to me, but it's also great to know you recommend it as well. 

I found a peer reviewed article on Vulpex (attached) where it does warn about oil paint swelling in high concentrations (1:10 or greater) and recommends 1:100 to reduce this, with presumably extensive washing afterwards.

 

However....for the paintwork, to start with I'm just going to use use water and see how far I get. I live in a hard water area so I'm wary of using tap water which could lead to calcification or potentially some reaction, but I do have distilled water. Lots of soft cloths and cotton buds, with very light pulling or rubbing. I'm aware that dirt in itself is abrasive, so obviously a light touch is required.

I appreciate your recommendation for the rust on cast iron / steel if. The rust is very minor an I will attempt to remove a small portion with whatever is least abrasive - the 0000 wool or a plastic pad. It may even come off with a cloth. We will see. I will definitely not polish.

I hardly dare breathe on the thing now!
 

All the best.
 

wn27-106.pdf

[Jerry]

In its current condition, this is already an extraordinary, significant, and very valuable piece. Anything that you do it it will not significantly improve any of those things. In other words, there is little potential upside in making it look cleaner or prettier. There is only a potential downside. It may be best to curb your enthusiasm, (which must be enormous), take your time, while researching the best cleaning, methods. 

 

I know that's what you're doing here, and I applaud you for taking all of this advice seriously. You are the custodian of a major piece of Edison history.

 

(As an aside, consider having this professionally appraised and added to your current insurance policy.)

Edited yesterday at 01:57 PM by Jerry

[anchorman]

On 1/6/2026 at 11:16 AM, Tinfoilphono said:

I think it's quite likely that the tinfoil sheets are original. 

 

I found the photo from which I had gotten information previously. Unfortunately I didn't keep a record of where this was originally published. Nor can I recall where I got the serial number for my records. 

 

Great to see this with a human for scale.  I thought maybe it was the size of a small singer sewing machine!   Congratulations, Ricky, on your acquisition!

[anchorman]

If you want to remove rust without removing other things like paint, consider evaporust.  There are ways to apply it that do not involve dipping the whole piece.  Might try even to use brass wool instead of steel wool for buffing the rust off if you decide to try to mechanically remove it.  Start with the least invasive methods possible and progress from there.

 

I’ve also had great success using lanolin as a metal preservative, and rust remover.  There’s a product in the USA called “fluid film” that is lanolin with an alkane solvent (think paraffin/white spirit/kerosene) that protects from moisture, and seems to find its way underneath rust.

 

in my experience paint like that will not be affected by alkane solvents, and thing likes paraffin/white spirit/kerosene (“mineral spirits” in the USA) will wipe off grime and dirt while leaving the original finish intact.  The fluid film leaves behind a protective layer of lanolin when wiped off with a soft cloth, and this helps prevent further rust and oxidation.

 

If you disassemble parts and use something like evaporust to clean, be sure that the entire part is submerged.  The border where oxygen from the air meets the working fluid will leave a line etched into the surface of the metal where the metal comes out of the fluid.  This takes more than a few minutes (more like a day) if the part is partially submerged.  If parts are fully submerged in evaporust, only the corroded material comes off, leaving sound metal behind.  Wyatt Markus, the sound-box guru from Rochester NY has posted pictures of before and after evaporust treatment, and it is really astounding how well it can work.  Mechanical cleaning inevitably removes good metal with the oxidation, and pieces with fine detail lose them, whereas the evaporust leaves cut/ground/shaped edges and features in tact, so long as the metal is still sound.

[AtRicky1]

Thanks Anchorman. From yours and everyone else comments, I'm definitely going down the 'light touch' route now. I've almost gone from "Right let's get this axle off and give it a a darn good polish" to "I'm going waft a tiny camel hair brush over it from a distance of 6 foot". You guys have definitely helped in that.

Luckily, engineering etc. is my thing and I'm a perfectionist - to my detriment in many things - but just as well probably in this case. I always think what if? You mention brass wool for the rust. I'll try cloth first then plastic now brass as you suggest. I think I'll forget any proper rust remover for the moment. I don't want to get to the situation where even the patina (such as it is) on the iron/steel changes on one part but not another. On the flywheel, where the worst of it is, it's close to the paintwork on the spokes, so care there obviously.

 

What type of paint would it be? Enamel? Would the Bergmann stamp, serial number and artwork be different paints? You mention white spirit/lanolin which sounds good but for the moment, I'm just going to try water and maybe Vulpex super diluted as suggested by Chad, once I see what's going on. To be honest I think a lot of it is just dust.

If I may, I'll come back to you guys a bit later with results and what to do with any any disassembly of parts. As I mentioned before I'm certainly not going to remove the axle.

 

I think my objective now is to make sure one part of it doesn't stand out too much from another. Clean but nicely aged.

Cheers!

  

[anchorman]

I don’t know about the colored details, but the underlying black paint is probably “Japaned” just like old singer sewing machines.

 

I’ve never had the detail/decorative bits come off from cleaning with mineral spirits on a sewing machine, but best to test somewhere inconspicuous if you were to go that route.   Water can only do so much, even with mild detergent added.

[AtRicky1]

The final piece of the puzzle...and not a pretty sight.

This the case for the phonograph. I have absolutely no idea why it is covered in paint. All I can say it thank goodness the phonograph was inside not outside....From the interior markings you can see it's had a lot of movement over the years.

 

The front 'lid' is broken but that can be remedied. It just needs a couple of old nails to be sourced to move the plank back into position. Perhaps a little wood glue if it's not visible. The lock too - if it's salvageable - also needs some work and a new key.

 

The only thing is what to do about the condition. Of course the paint could be stripped, I think it's just white emulsion. However, this would destroy the 'history'. Also I love the fact that when people see it they will see the contrast. Didn't expect that inside!

 

Anyway, will be the last thing to deal with. Would much appreciate some thoughts on what to do anyone?

 

Thanks.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]