Edison Tinfoil Phonograph 1878

[AtRicky1]

Article about Henry Edmunds in the Rolls Royce magazine. He introduced Mr. Rolls and Mr. Royce I believe. That's about it for documentation. I'm trying to track down an original Edmunds letter.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:45 PM by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

Sorry I left out some more pages of the article. Great story and background. Here they are.

 

If you have trouble reading the double pager I can split it in two if needed.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:07 AM by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

I must have forgotten this email from Paul Israel at Rutgers in 2019. Quite important!

 

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you about your phonograph.  I have been focused on preparing materials for the beginning of the editing of Volume 10 and preparing to teach a class that begins next week.

 

Here is what we know about the phonograph that Edison gave to Edmunds.  In Volume 4 we include as an artifact the standard exhibition tinfoil phonograph, which is the machine he would have received.  I have attached this document, which includes a headnote discussing the instrument.  In Volume 5 there is a bit of information about Edison giving Edmunds the machine in Doc. 1785. Here is the relevant excerpt and the related endnote:

 

Doc. 1785
"We have milked the Exhibition cow pretty dry—only sold 4
in July one of those to party named Edison, had to charge him
$100 for it, to keep show of kindness to inventor—6"

6. More than a year previously, Edison had promised a phonograph
to Henry Edmunds, Jr., a British inventor and entrepreneur who helped
to publicize the invention in England (see Doc. 1249 and TAEB 4:95 n.
2). He apparently gave it to Edmunds when he visited Menlo Park while
traveling in the U.S. during the summer of 1879. Painter charged Edison
“for the mach’ same as others [$100], & pay you royalty on it [$18]—
This is less than though I had charged you what it has cost us to make &
ship it.” Tritton 1993, 10–33, 53, 192–93; Edward Johnson to TAE, 18
July 1879; Painter to TAE, 26 August 1879; both DF (TAEM 51:741,
745; TAED D7932ZAP1, D7932ZAT).

 

Royalty reports indicate that this machine is No. 205, so it is definitely the Edmunds machine.

 

The instruction manual for the machine is http://edison.rutgers.edu/digital/document/CA013A

 

I hope you find the above useful in documenting your phonograph.

 

With best regards,
Paul

--

Paul Israel

Director and General Editor

Thomas A. Edison Papers

Rutgers University

44 Road 3

Piscataway, NJ 08854-8049

phone: 848-445-2711

cell: 732-213-1761

fax:  732-445-8512

email: pisrael@taep.rutgers.edu

http://edison.rutgers.edu/

 

[AtRicky1]

Just a couple of extra photos.

 

Inside the drawer was a steel rod. I'm guessing this was used to compress the tin foil into the groove of the mandrel. The interesting thing is there is probably just enough room for the thickness of a 0.15mm sheet either side - the width of the tin foils I have. If so, the tolerance is exceptional. I would also think that maybe there would be no need for a rubber 'rod' to hold the foil in place. By compressing the foil against the brass grooves either side, maybe the indentations it made would secure it in place. However, that might mean the needle having to go over the gap when rotated. I'd imagine it would destroy needles pretty quickly.  Unless the rod was kept there? Anyway, just a thought. As I've got so many tin foils maybe I will try fitting one at some point.

 

The other photo is of the compression(?) pad and bracket against the back of the mica, in the recorder cone. Very tarnished and fragile I would imagine, so another reason not to mess with the cone. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 04:56 PM by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

How the engineering in 1878 was able to achieve such tolerance is amazing to me.  

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mrfxzC89Q9y1B0lSIkfFT_Ku-kRKFL0X/view?usp=sharing

 

Edit: Corrected link

Edited Sunday at 06:02 PM by AtRicky1

[Fran604g]

1 hour ago, AtRicky1 said:

How the engineering in 1878 was able to achieve such tolerance is amazing to me.  

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mrfxzC89Q9y1B0lSIkfFT_Ku-kRKFL0X/view?usp=sharing

 

Edit: Corrected link

The precision involved with machining during the expansion of the industrial revolution is surprising. Consider the machinery that was being developed for manufacturing after about 1850 and it becomes understandable that a tolerance of 1/10,000th of an inch was quite achievable and in fact required of journeyman toolmakers.

[Jerry]

Quote

... that might mean the needle having to go over the gap when rotated. I'd imagine it would destroy needles pretty quickly.  

 

I am not a tinfoil phonograph expert by any stretch, however, I believe the stylus ("needle") is not meant to touch the groove in the mandrel, therefore, the stylus crossing the gap should not create any interference. If the stylus were to make contact with the mandrel groove, it would not leave any undulations in the tinfoil, but would instead just push it down to the bottom of the groove, making one smooth "silent" impression. It would also probably rip the tinfoil.

[AtRicky1]

10 minutes ago, Fran604g said:

The precision involved with machining during the expansion of the industrial revolution is surprising. Consider the machinery that was being developed for manufacturing after about 1850 and it becomes understandable that a tolerance of 1/10,000th of an inch was quite achievable and in fact required of journeyman toolmakers.

 

That's is quite remarkable to me. Not so backward then....

Now I come to think of it though, I've seen fabulous watches in museums, with many complications, from around the 1700s.

[AtRicky1]

I'm sure you are sick to death of me posting stuff but I've amalgamated all material - videos, photos, provenance into these folders.

Three new videos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QB4DWNPGRFJz8Qj98 - front, back and flywheel

Phono photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PRgvbJebWefXkivb9

 

Provenance: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8u1WNrLyt4bitGQr7

 

Photos of family with the phonograph: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PBTWGA5vKQY8jNxT6 

 

Tin foils: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uwg8UijpN43XQHpTA
 

Carrying case/box: https://photos.app.goo.gl/x7KSVLErkLTwyonW6
 

It's unlikely that I will do any more work on it, unless I decide to keep it, which or course I would love to. However, that now seems unlikely too.
 

Edited 20 hours ago by AtRicky1

[AtRicky1]

I've now been through all the tin foil sheets. Not the 40 sheets I thought. 56/57 of them!

 

Video here:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EUoJB47DiiYVcnE86

A couple more photos here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZQj4VrW34cvJwev7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AWnL8RMikyuimQMC7