Triumph half nut

[ken53092]

I have a model E triumph that seems to have trouble with skipping along the feed screw. I can get it to work perfectly for a few days on end, but after it sits idle for several days it begins to skip again toward the end of the feed screw on any cylinder. The problem appears to be with the half nut and/or the feed screw.  I have replaced both with parts that are in excellent condition with little to no signs at all of wear but the problem persists. It only happens after several days of no use.  I have seen in the past a half nut that is actually a double half nut in that instead of having one half nut at the end, it has two. I was wondering if such a set up would work on my Triumph. My thinking is the back feed screw would push the front one past any area where it begins to skip and the front would pull the back once across the same area.  I have noticed when the skipping occurs, I can gently push down on the half nut or even gently push it along and it works fine.  Does anyone know about these double half nuts? I spoke with Brett Hurt about this problem and he tells me his model E triumph is also a bear to get just right with the drive so perhaps this is just something I'll have to live with, or make it a point to play a cylinder at least once a day.  I also have several other machines and tend to take turns using them but maybe I need to start playing at least one cylinder a day with the Triumph.  Oh, the skipping also occurs even when I just set it to run without a cylinder on the mandrel.. I can tel it starts to skip because I hear a clicking sound. ANY help would be most appreciated! 

[Valecnik]

That dual half nut system was used on just the earlier models, maybe just the A and the B.  I'm not sure if it's interchangeable with the E.  Maybe someone else can confirm.

 

Any cylinder machine that you don't play for awhile can get a bit sticky and need adjusting again to play properly.  There are a few things you try.  Sometimes the combination of some or all of them is needed.

 

- Probably you know that half nut can be adjusted up or down by rotating a screw on the top of the half nut bar. Half of a turn could solve the problem.

- Make sure the carriage rod is clean and lightly oiled.  There could be a spot where it's slightly worn causing it to stick.  Loosen and rotate it.  Then slide the carriage back and forth and see if you notice it sliding more easily

- Make sure your crane is just right so the weight of the horn does not put pressure on the carriage as the carriage moves.

- Get a new half nut.  That almost always helps.  The one you have on there may look fine but be slightly worn causing it to skip.

 

You should be able to solve the problem.  

[ken53092]

Thank you for the information. I have tried many of the things you suggest but will take a closer look at the way the horn is hanging as I think there may be a chance that the spring at the top could be worn (weak) as I have to have it screwed up as far as possible where it attaches to the crane to lift the horn enough to minimize pressure on the reproducer. I believe the half nut is in good condition because I purchased it from Wyatt Marcus and he rarely sends out things that are not as close to perfect as possible but I guess that is a possability. I also got another feed screw from Wyatt when I took a deep dive into this problem and replaced essentially the entire top from the 2/4 minute gearing to the half nut and feed screw to the mandrel.  I will also revisit the carriage rod, the one part I did NOT replace! I never thought to rotate it and that sounds like an excellent idea that I will try out later today.  Most puzzling to me is the way I can get it working and it will work fine for days, even weeks unless I let it sit about a week without using it then the sticking and clicking sound returns. It is a beautiful machine that I've had for several years and this problem is one that  started about 8 months ago and seems to be a real pain to permanently correct. Your information gives me a new area to explore and I am most grateful for your advice! I am especially anxious to rotate the carriage rod as that is something that never crossed my mind and it does seem like a possible and even logical cause of the problem. I have kept it well oiled along with the feed screw, but perhaps the oil dries out after a few weeks and the problem returns.  

[Valecnik]

3 hours ago, ken53092 said:

Thank you for the information. I have tried many of the things you suggest but will take a closer look at the way the horn is hanging as I think there may be a chance that the spring at the top could be worn (weak) as I have to have it screwed up as far as possible where it attaches to the crane to lift the horn enough to minimize pressure on the reproducer. I believe the half nut is in good condition because I purchased it from Wyatt Marcus and he rarely sends out things that are not as close to perfect as possible but I guess that is a possability. I also got another feed screw from Wyatt when I took a deep dive into this problem and replaced essentially the entire top from the 2/4 minute gearing to the half nut and feed screw to the mandrel.  I will also revisit the carriage rod, the one part I did NOT replace! I never thought to rotate it and that sounds like an excellent idea that I will try out later today.  Most puzzling to me is the way I can get it working and it will work fine for days, even weeks unless I let it sit about a week without using it then the sticking and clicking sound returns. It is a beautiful machine that I've had for several years and this problem is one that  started about 8 months ago and seems to be a real pain to permanently correct. Your information gives me a new area to explore and I am most grateful for your advice! I am especially anxious to rotate the carriage rod as that is something that never crossed my mind and it does seem like a possible and even logical cause of the problem. I have kept it well oiled along with the feed screw, but perhaps the oil dries out after a few weeks and the problem returns.  

Good luck wiith it.  I know they can be frustrating.  Triumphs are the best.  I have an E model that is my go to machine for playing cylinders.   I have several other riumphs so have experienced the problem many times.   

 

Another suggestion would be that any time you have not played it for awhile, wipe down that carriage rod with a paper towel so it's completely dry and then apply an ever so light bt of oil, moving the carriage back and forth to spread it around.  If you feel a sticky area, do it again.  
 

Share some pics of your problem child when you get time!

[ken53092]

Great advice! I love my Triumph and frankly it has been my favorite machine....until...I got an Amberola V.  That Amberola is phenomenal and to me the only drawback is it won't play 2 minute cylinders. The gear drive, the auto shut off and the Diamond B reproducer combined with the N-56 for black wax 4 minute cylinders make it not only a superlative machine, but also one of the easiest to operate. Those two are very close in terms of complete satisfaction.  The Triumph has amazing looks (pics of both attached) but in the words of Brett Hurt (Dyslexic Genius on YouTube) the Amberola V is like a "baby Opera"!  I'll twist your ear for a few moments with the story of the V. I had a lady contact me locally when she saw a post of mine on Facebook that mentioned my collection. She wanted to know if I had any interest in seeing the collection of her late uncle who had passed away and she was in charge of clearing the estate. I told her yes and it turned out the home was less than a mile from me, so I went to meet up with her to see what she had.  It wasn't a large collection but included a Vic IV with spearpoint horn, about 300 cylinders, the Amberola V and a  VV IX in need of repair.  I called Brett who lives in South Carolina and told him about the machines, the lady wanted 500 for the Vic IV WITH the horn, 300 for the cylinders and 150 for the Amberola V.  I live in Wisconsin near Milwaukee and Brett was heading to Chicago to pick up another machine so he said he wanted all of them for her price of 950 dollars. I told him I wanted the Amberola V but would personally deliver the cylinders and the Vic IV to him since Chicago is only about 100 miles away from my house.  Cheryl, his wife, sent me 950 dollars via PayPal and I told her "Wait, you sent too much, I am going to buy the Amberola!"  She replied, "No, we are buying it for you to thank you for delivering the other items!"  So I got the V for FREE thanks to Brett's generous decision. I attached a picture of Cheryl cleaning the horn and the results of her work for you to see.  Brett told me about a month later that he sold the Vic with the horn for a nice profit to a man in South America! The Vic was in excellent condition, just needed a good cleaning and oiling and if you know Brett and his work, that was a very simple task for him! To my amazement when I first saw the Amberola V in one of the bedrooms, I wound it up and it played flawlessly, though it too needed a good cleaning and oiling, which I was more than happy to do. About a week later the lady ended up giving me the VV-9 for 50 dollars and I passed it on to a fellow I know here who wanted one for the same price and he has it up and running today.  I also attached a pic of my Model A standard which left the factory in January of 1900. I love this machine because it was probably made in 1898 or 1899 before being shipped out and my grandfather was born in 1898. I always think of him when I play it! I now have an original Edison Standard morning glory horn for it but usually display it with the smaller witches hat horn. 

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by RodPickett
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[Valecnik]

That's quite a story!  You have some really nice machines there Ken!

 

I agree with you on the Amberola V btw.  It's only downside is not having 2 min capability.

[ken53092]

Good news! I tried your trick of rotating the carriage rod, cleaning it up and oiling it along with a general  cleaning of the half nut and feed screw and was able to spend several hours Sunday istening to my Triumph! I think you were spot-on with the advice to rotate the carriage rod.  I mentioned your advice to Bett Hurt in a call to him Sunday and he agreed that your suggestion was spot on and something he says he should have come up with in our discussions about the clicking and sticking problem. Once again thank you for taking the time to pass along your knowledge to a fellow collector!

 

Ken Herrera

[Valecnik]

4 hours ago, ken53092 said:

Good news! I tried your trick of rotating the carriage rod, cleaning it up and oiling it along with a general  cleaning of the half nut and feed screw and was able to spend several hours Sunday istening to my Triumph! I think you were spot-on with the advice to rotate the carriage rod.  I mentioned your advice to Bett Hurt in a call to him Sunday and he agreed that your suggestion was spot on and something he says he should have come up with in our discussions about the clicking and sticking problem. Once again thank you for taking the time to pass along your knowledge to a fellow collector!

 

Ken Herrera

Hey that's great news!  Well something had to work eventually!  Congratulationis!