Edison Phonograph Questions

[trincard]

Hello all,

My Dad passed on to me an Edison Phonograph, and I am trying to determine the model as well as find a key to open the bottom door.  Also wondering if there is anyone around that does professional cleaning of such a great antique item and what it’s potential value may be.  
 

My Dad told me that when he and his parents lived on 40th Street in Irvington, they lived across the street from a man by the name of I believe George Mulelet who used to work with Thomas Edison and had a lot of antiques at his home.  When Dad was about 10 years old (circa 1953) he was at Mr. Mulelet’s house and Mr. Mulelet told my Dad to pick out one item in his house that he wanted.  My Dad chose the Edison Phonograph.  

 

It is in a piece of wooden furniture made by The White Furniture Company out of Mebane, NC.  It has a medallion that says it is a “Diamond Blue Official Laboratory Model” and also has a Thomas A Edison Trademark.  It came with a record labelled “Let Us Not Forget – A Message To The American People by Thomas A. Edison” with the Edison Trademark and I believe these two smaller records came with it as well: Little Wonder Record’s No. 1218 “Tell Me (Fox-trot)” by Dance Music Orchestra and Little Wonder Record’s No. 1137 “Mammy O’ Mine” by the Vocal Quartette.  

 

Attached please find pictures of the Edison Phonograph.  Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

[phonogfp]

Your machine is an Edison Disc Phonograph Model C19.  If you look at the left side of the playing compartment you should see a metal plate with the model designation and serial number.  By using the serial number you can determine when it was manufactured using this free article on the APS website:

 

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/61

 

The medallion labeling the machine as a "Diamond Disc Official Laboratory Model" was affixed to machines using the largest size horn and a two-mainspring motor.  The C19 (and its earlier designation as a C250) was a very popular machine in its day.  Many survive, and there's nothing on it that can't be repaired or replaced.

 

That said, the record of Edison speaking Let Us Not Forget is valuable (around $100) and should not be played until you are certain your machine's diamond stylus is in good shape.  Edison Disc Phonographs in their original configuration play ONLY Edison Records.  The Little Wonder records cannot be played on it.

 

You may find another of the free APS articles helpful:

 

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

 

The lower door conceals the record storage compartment.  It may indeed be locked, which can be determined by directing a strong light along the door's edge where the lock is located.  If it's indeed locked, you can probably locate a key here (post a "Wanted" item) or on eBay.  It may be - depending on the machine's past storage conditions - that the door has swelled and is simply stuck.  There's a ball catch on those doors that can be particularly stiff.  In any event, gentle but firm manipulation may be successful if the door is unlocked.

 

Finally, value can be determined by yet another free article on the APS website by clicking the "Price Guide" button below the "Introductory Articles" tab near the top of  the APS Home page:

 

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/

 

Good luck!

 

George P.

[Jerry]

The only small bit I can add to George's fine advice, is that the speaker grill is installed upside down.🙂 

[trincard]

Thanks George and Jerry!

 

I noticed that about the speaker grill as well.  Not sure how that happened.  As for the metal plate, there is none.  From my research I notice there should be a plate on the bottom right side when looking inside, but there is nothing on either the right or left sides.  This is why I'm having issues determining what model this is.  It also has features on the wooden furniture that I do not see anyone else have.  

 

As for the door, I cannot get it to open even by adding force so I need to find the right key.  Any advise?  I had purchased a 2” Brunswick Edison Phonograph Model 101 Antique Cabinet Door Barrel Hollow Key on Ebay but unfortunately that did not work.

[phonogfp]

You may rest assured that (unless the mechanism has been switched out) your Edison is a C19. 

 

It does have a couple of unusual features.  An aftermarket interior light has been installed, which is a neat little gadget.  You may see a couple of wires leading from the left rear down to where a battery was kept.

 

There is also the matter of that White Furniture Company decal on the inside of the lid where an Edison script decal is typically found.  I believe that White was one of the furniture companies contracted by Edison to supply cabinets, but in 57 years of collecting, I've never seen the White decal on an Edison cabinet - especially where the Edison decal should be.  There were some cancellations at different times, but there's no point in getting into the weeds until I can see a couple of things.

 

Please take a picture of the left side of the playing compartment near the front of the cabinet.  Look closely to see if there are two small holes about 4 inches apart where two screws would have held a data plate in place. 

 

Also, please remove the grille and take a picture of the braces that hold the motor board in place (2 on the right; 1 on the left).

 

Here's what the key for a C19 looks like:

 

 

You can place a free wanted ad using this picture.  These keys are not rare, but they usually sell for around $20 or a little more.

 

I look forward to seeing more pictures and knowing if there are screw holes on the left front side of the playing compartment.

 

George P.

[Valecnik]

51 minutes ago, phonogfp said:

You may rest assured that (unless the mechanism has been switched out) your Edison is a C19. 

 

It does have a couple of unusual features.  An aftermarket interior light has been installed, which is a neat little gadget.  You may see a couple of wires leading from the left rear down to where a battery was kept.

 

There is also the matter of that White Furniture Company decal on the inside of the lid where an Edison script decal is typically found.  I believe that White was one of the furniture companies contracted by Edison to supply cabinets, but in 57 years of collecting, I've never seen the White decal on an Edison cabinet - especially where the Edison decal should be.  There were some cancellations at different times, but there's no point in getting into the weeds until I can see a couple of things.

 

Please take a picture of the left side of the playing compartment near the front of the cabinet.  Look closely to see if there are two small holes about 4 inches apart where two screws would have held a data plate in place. 

 

Also, please remove the grille and take a picture of the braces that hold the motor board in place (2 on the right; 1 on the left).

 

Here's what the key for a C19 looks like:

 

 

 

You can place a free wanted ad using this picture.  These keys are not rare, but they usually sell for around $20 or a little more.

 

I look forward to seeing more pictures and knowing if there are screw holes on the left front side of the playing compartment.

 

George P.

 

[Henry]

Looks like there's a ghost outline of a larger circle around the White Furniture decal. What significance?

 

BTW, Mebane is pronounced "Mebbin" by the locals. (I spent four years in Chapel Hill, not too far from Mebane.) 

Edited October 18 by Henry

[phonogfp]

5 hours ago, Henry said:

Looks like there's a ghost outline of a larger circle around the White Furniture decal. What significance?

 

I was wondering too.

 

George P.

[BenL]

On 10/17/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jerry said:

The only small bit I can add to George's fine advice, is that the speaker grill is installed upside down.🙂 

"horn grille" 

[Valecnik]

Nice machine you have there.   With a little gentle cleaning and light restoration it will display nicely.  You'll almost certainly need to get that reproducer rebuilt and most likely that will include a new diamond stylus.  A bit painful on the pocketbook but well worth it in my opinion.  Steve Medved or Wyatt Markus can do that for you. 

 

 In the below video you can get an idea what yours will sound like in this case with a Medved restrored reproducer.

 

 

[CurtA]

16 hours ago, phonogfp said:

 

I was wondering too.

 

George P.

The outline appears to have been some type of metal disc which left an impression in the wood and was fastened by a center screw that left a hole in the decal...  But what was it?

[CurtA]

White Furniture was in business from 1881-1993.  The building is still standing and currently being used as an upscale apartment complex.

[trincard]

So I am pretty sure the Diamond Disc gold emblem was on top of the White Furniture emblem as it’s the same size as the round circlular mark and has a needle on the back for pushing into the wood.

 

Here are some additional pictures I just took after opening the top and taking the top square wood bracket out.  The black foam speaker was disconnected and rolling around so I put inside the phonograph.  I could not open the bottom door nor remove the horn grille.

[trincard]

Also I looked for an Edison Skeleton E key but can’t find now.  A couple months ago I saw one on eBay for $125.

Edited October 19 by trincard

[Jerry]

On 10/18/2024 at 10:48 PM, BenL said:

"horn grille" 

In a case like this, my wife would defend herself by claiming, "I've seen it both ways." I'll certainly admit and agree, however, that you are correct. Thanks for pointing that out. 🙂

[Jerry]

The horn grille slides upwards slightly, (maybe 1/4"), and the bottom edge can then swing out of the groove at the bottom of the grille frame. Once swung out a bit, the grille can then be slid downwards, releasing the top edge from the grille frame. The reverse process to reinstall. The grille can be a bit stuck in the frame at times.

[trincard]

Yeah unfortunately my grille is pretty well stuck.

[CurtA]

The "black foam speaker" is actually a volume control that is supposed to be in the horn, connected by a cable which slides it in and out of the throat of the horn.  Slide it "IN" and you reduce the volume, "OUT" and increase the volume.  Same concept as stuffing a sock in the horn to mute the sound, but a more "advanced" remote control method (at least for the early 1900s)...

 

Curt

 

 

Edited November 7 by CurtA

[trincard]

Good morning Curt,

 

Thanks for that information!  On a side note, I was able to purchase an Edison Key on eBay and got it to work!  Come to find out that my bottom door was not locked after all, HOWEVER no matter how much force I use to try to open it I cannot get the bottom door to open.  I can knock on the door and see it wiggle a little but when I pull on the round knob (even am able to turn the knob slightly) it does not open the door.   I am hesitant to try and use a screwdriver to try to pry it open for fear of damaging the wood.  Anyone have any suggestions on how to pry or get the door to open easily?  Also have the same issue with trying to remove the horn grille.  It just seems stuck.  I can wiggle it ever so slightly upwards as was suggested earlier but it just does not want to pop out.

 

Any advise would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[phonogfp]

If your Edison has been stored in a damp or even humid environment, it's likely that the grille and door have swollen slightly.  You're very wise to avoid using a screwdriver in an attempt to open the door.

 

My advice is to keep the machine in a heated room over the winter and allow the cabinet to shrink back to its original dimensions.  This may take a week or two, or 6 months - it depends on how swollen it is.

 

You patience will be rewarded.

 

George P.

[Fran604g]

Your Edison Diamond DIsc Phonograph "Chippendale" Model C-19 is missing it's dataplate. The dataplate would indicate the model and serial number for the machine. I can't tell from your photos whether or not there are the 2 small screw holes present where that metal identification plate was located. I applied a red circle to your photo showing where this would have been.

 

Further, the round gold colored Official Laboratory Model medallion would have been applied on the wood trim piece that surrounds the turntable assembly in the left hand corner. Here's a couple of photos to illustrate:

 

Here's a photo of a typical C 19 dataplate and medallion in situ: