Newby

[thbass]

I boughg my first phonograph! I am an avid vinyl guy but always wanted a 78 player.

So best i can tell, i have a Sonora standard upright model.

i have a box of needles.

it works pretty good but i noticed the metal tube arm that transfers the sound into the speaker, is a little loose and with a minor adjustment with my hand, record sound considerably better. Other than stand there and hold it, maybe there is a trick im missing? 

Thanks!

serial number 634969

[phonogfp]

Welcome!

 

Post a picture or two and we'll be glad to help you.

 

George P.

[Chrisingramci]

Welcome! As a newbie myself, I can tell you that you've come to the right place. The people on this forum are supportive, passionate, and dedicated to the preservation of antique media! The website has lots of helpful information, as does the Victor Victrola page (among numerous other websites you'll no doubt learn about soon). I hope you'll enjoy your new hobby as much as I am.

[Dan]

Ditto that’s how it starts with that first machine than your hooked. 
Welcome

Dan

[thbass]

[phonogfp]

Thbass,

 

Your Sonora is a "Nocturne," as shown here in the company's 1920 catalog:

 

 

One of your images shows the tone arm:

 

 

This tone arm does not appear to be completely seated in its base.  Is there a horizontally-mounted screw mounted on the perimeter of where the tone arm meets the base?  If so, loosen it, allow the tone arm to fully seat down in the base, then re-tighten the screw (but not so tight that it would prevent free movement of the tone arm).

 

George P.

[BenL]

The Nocturne was introduced mid May of 1919, and was phased out around 1923.  The first 1919 cabinet design had one door, but it was soon changed to two by early 1920. Sadly, no records on serial numbers survive to narrow down a more exact year.

I always suggest the basics guide for newbie collectors. (https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16) 

Also, here's the manual. (https://www.nipperhead.com/old/sonora.htm)  

Edited August 23, 2023 by BenL

[Valecnik]

Hey congratulations and welcome to the club!   It's a great hobby but be careful.  It can consume a lot of time and money!

 

Get to know your Sonora,  ask a lot of questions and familiarize yourself with the books and other resources out there.  Learning is half the fun and it's cheaper than buying!  🙂

[thbass]

14 hours ago, phonogfp said:

Thbass,

 

Your Sonora is a "Nocturne," as shown here in the company's 1920 catalog:

 

 

One of your images shows the tone arm:

 

 

This tone arm does not appear to be completely seated in its base.  Is there a horizontally-mounted screw mounted on the perimeter of where the tone arm meets the base?  If so, loosen it, allow the tone arm to fully seat down in the base, then re-tighten the screw (but not so tight that it would prevent free movement of the tone arm).

 

George 

[thbass]

Wow, this is great information. Thank y’all so much for everything. I have so many questions so I’m just gonna start.

but before I do, I’m gonna try to take a video of what’s going on with the sound. And you can tell me what’s going on. I did adjust the tone arm screw, and even with it setting properly it’s still not getting a good sound.

[thbass]

When i gently lift the base of the ton e arm, the sound improves

[phonogfp]

8 minutes ago, thbass said:

 I did adjust the tone arm screw, and even with it setting properly it’s still not getting a good sound.

 

Tell us (or show us in a picture) what you're doing that improves the sound.

 

George P.

[phonogfp]

Oh - you beat me!  We must have been typing simultaneously.

 

Clearly, there must be a way to seat the tone arm into the base.  Can the tone arm be lifted off the base completely?

[thbass]

Only when i release the small screw

on the side

[CurtA]

The reproducer and connecting joints should move feely, but may be gummed up from old lubrication and lack of use.   Oil them with a good quality oil and move them to get them loosened up...

 

[phonogfp]

7 hours ago, thbass said:

Only when i release the small screw

on the side

 

Sorry - please show a picture of the "small screw on the side."

[Springmotor70]

thbass,

I do not recall currently how the pivot works on the tone arm for Sonora.  I was thinking there was a vertical pivot support inside the arm center similar to Brunswick.  You can remove the 3 mounting screws and check it out making sure it is seated properly.   As Curt mentioned that pivot at the reproducer mount should also move very freely.  In Sonora's design when you raise the reproducer it will lock in the up-most position so you can quickly use both hands to change the needle.  

 

If the gaskets are dried out that will cause a buzzing in many tones.  And the Columbia record shown in the photos will blast this reproducer.  Even though it is a 78 and will "play" on this machine that record was designed to be played on an electrical machine with a jewel stylus and much lighter tracking.  The shellac also does not have the abrasive material to make a steel needle wear evenly in the groove.  Find yourself some acoustically recorded 78s or electrically recorded before 1939 and your machine will sound awesome (with any other minor adjustments and a reproducer rebuild).  Sonoras are great machines, much better than many off brands.  The reproducer swivels so that you can get a ball stylus and play pathe's as well.  The hold up lock to change needles is my favorite detail.

 

Welcome to the club!

Darren

[audiophile102]

Replacing both gaskets in the reproducer makes a huge improvement to the sound quality.  Without seeing the problem with the tone arm, I can't diagnose a solution.  I own two Sonora phonographs from 1916 and I intend to keep them into the foreseeable future.  I personally think that the Sonora reproducer sounds better than the Victor exhibition or No. 2.  

[thbass]

14 hours ago, Springmotor70 said:

thbass,

I do not recall currently how the pivot works on the tone arm for Sonora.  I was thinking there was a vertical pivot support inside the arm center similar to Brunswick.  You can remove the 3 mounting screws and check it out making sure it is seated properly.   As Curt mentioned that pivot at the reproducer mount should also move very freely.  In Sonora's design when you raise the reproducer it will lock in the up-most position so you can quickly use both hands to change the needle.  

 

If the gaskets are dried out that will cause a buzzing in many tones.  And the Columbia record shown in the photos will blast this reproducer.  Even though it is a 78 and will "play" on this machine that record was designed to be played on an electrical machine with a jewel stylus and much lighter tracking.  The shellac also does not have the abrasive material to make a steel needle wear evenly in the groove.  Find yourself some acoustically recorded 78s or electrically recorded before 1939 and your machine will sound awesome (with any other minor adjustments and a reproducer rebuild).  Sonoras are great machines, much better than many off brands.  The reproducer swivels so that you can get a ball stylus and play pathe's as well.  The hold up lock to change needles is my favorite detail.

 

Welcome to the club!

Darren

Thank you. So many questions. I will ask later. Figured i should make sure the machine is optimal before asking about different 78s and needles. Which i know nothing about.

[thbass]

Ok, he is the tone arm removed.

[Jerry]

Have you replaced the needle??? It sounds like a completely worn out needle. Moving the tone arm up a bit will slightly change the angle of the needle and somewhat improve the tone. General rule is, a new needle with each playing.

[phonogfp]

After listening to the video clip, I suspect Jerry's onto something regarding needles.  Steel needles are meant to be replaced with every play of a record.  They are readily available for nominal cost.  This is "Pointer #1" in one of the several free articles on the APS website (which I highly recommend):

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

 

George P.

[thbass]

21 hours ago, Jerry said:

Have you replaced the needle??? It sounds like a completely worn out needle. Moving the tone arm up a bit will slightly change the angle of the needle and somewhat improve the tone. General rule is, a new needle with each playing.

This cane with it. I am not familiar with different needles or the different kind of 78s. Also, the tonearm can not be adjusted. At least not to my knowledge. Thank you!

[phonogfp]

Typically, we collectors don't trust needles found in machines, since many people were/are careless with where put new vs. used needles.  If your eyes are good, you can often tell a used needle by holding it under a strong light and rolling it between your thumb and forefinger.  A used needle will flash a flat spot at the tip where it's worn.

 

Meanwhile, new needles are available for about 5 bucks for 500.

 

George P.

[thbass]

Thank you.