Need help finding info on a machine

[Jakeh13]

I recently purchased a beat up little machine with the intent of learning more about it and seeing if I can get it working. However I’m new to the hobby so before I blunder around trying things I’ve been trying to find more info on my machine, how to work on it, and an idea of its value before I start taking things apart and putting them back together. It is a Columbia Grafonola Viva Tonal, number 123a. I’ve been able to find information about other viva tonals online the only reference I’ve seen to this specific smaller cabinet model are some dubious auction sites. As for working on it there’s definitely many issues that are gonna have to be fixed first so until I can look inside my only specific question is if there is any access inside I just haven’t found or if I will need to cut into this machine which sounds like a bit of a tragedy. Even if it’s not worth much I think it’s quite beautiful. Any info is appreciated, thank you!

[phonogfp]

To access the motor of your Columbia, remove the crank (turn it counter-clockwise).  Detach the lid stay (preferably at the bottom where it passes through the motor board), and allow the lid to lean back against a wall or other stable object.  Remove the screws at the perimeter of the playing compartment (I think I see 4 in your picture, but remove all screws located at the edge of the motor board).  At that point, you should be able to bodily lift the entire motor board and motor straight up out of the cabinet.  

 

The APS website has a number of free articles aimed to help newcomers.  Here's a particularly helpful one:

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

 

Best of luck!

 

George P.

[MisterJive47]

Welcome to the hobby! Yes, it's a nice machine with a lot of potential. Also, the tiger oak cabinet I believe is more difficult to find on Viva-tonal machines. Most I've seen are in a "mahogany" finish, so yours is a little more unusual.

Is the motor not holding a wind, or just acting sluggish or noisy?

[Jakeh13]

5 hours ago, MisterJive47 said:

Welcome to the hobby! Yes, it's a nice machine with a lot of potential. Also, the tiger oak cabinet I believe is more difficult to find on Viva-tonal machines. Most I've seen are in a "mahogany" finish, so yours is a little more unusual.

Is the motor not holding a wind, or just acting sluggish or noisy?

A lot of learning has been done since posting this. Phonogfp kindly pointed me in the right direction and I have since accessed the motor and gained a much better understanding of the machine. I originally experienced no resistance at all when turning the crank as if the springs (2 unless I’m horribly confused) were broken or not attached at all. On the assumption it was one of those issues I disassembled part of the motor to access and open the spring barrel. This is where I learned my machine has two springs, additionally upon individually checking each spring I am able to hand wind them around the axle (I am improvising some of the terminology) and experience all the resistance I’d expect so once I reassemble I will check the mechanism between the crank and spring axle step by step. I am relieved It doesn’t seem like I will have to actually replace any springs I was not looking forward to that. However the screws holding the spring barrel closed seemed to only do so with rust so before I reassemble I will need to find a suitable replacement fastener. As far as I’m aware everything besides this is operating as intended, and besides some general love and completing the tone arm/reproducer as I’m sure is apparent by the picture I think it’s well on its way. Very happy with progress so far and appreciate the help!

[Jakeh13]

18 hours ago, Jakeh13 said:

A lot of learning has been done since posting this. Phonogfp kindly pointed me in the right direction and I have since accessed the motor and gained a much better understanding of the machine. I originally experienced no resistance at all when turning the crank as if the springs (2 unless I’m horribly confused) were broken or not attached at all. On the assumption it was one of those issues I disassembled part of the motor to access and open the spring barrel. This is where I learned my machine has two springs, additionally upon individually checking each spring I am able to hand wind them around the axle (I am improvising some of the terminology) and experience all the resistance I’d expect so once I reassemble I will check the mechanism between the crank and spring axle step by step. I am relieved It doesn’t seem like I will have to actually replace any springs I was not looking forward to that. However the screws holding the spring barrel closed seemed to only do so with rust so before I reassemble I will need to find a suitable replacement fastener. As far as I’m aware everything besides this is operating as intended, and besides some general love and completing the tone arm/reproducer as I’m sure is apparent by the picture I think it’s well on its way. Very happy with progress so far and appreciate the help!

I have finished reassembling the motor, the specific issue I’ve now identified is that when the axle in the center of the spring barrel is rotated the entire spring barrel rotates with it, meaning the spring inside doesn’t get wound. However if I manually fix the barrel in place and turn the crank it’s quite hard compared to what I would expect and regardless of whether the machine is in start or stop this doesn’t translate to any movement of the turntable spindle. At first I thought this might mean the spindle itself was locked however when I spin the crank without holding the spring barrel the turntable spindle moves with very little resistance. Through some trial and error I believe I can find the problem but if anyone has encountered this problem help would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Jakeh13]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:36 PM, Jakeh13 said:

I have finished reassembling the motor, the specific issue I’ve now identified is that when the axle in the center of the spring barrel is rotated the entire spring barrel rotates with it, meaning the spring inside doesn’t get wound. However if I manually fix the barrel in place and turn the crank it’s quite hard compared to what I would expect and regardless of whether the machine is in start or stop this doesn’t translate to any movement of the turntable spindle. At first I thought this might mean the spindle itself was locked however when I spin the crank without holding the spring barrel the turntable spindle moves with very little resistance. Through some trial and error I believe I can find the problem but if anyone has encountered this problem help would be much appreciated. Thank you!

Final result is my brake seems to be stuck in the stop position, so while the turntable is in place it will not spin at all. Shouldn't be too hard to fix, but by holding the turntable spindle manually I am now able to wind up and "play" the machine which is very exciting. Very impressive that even a seemingly poorly taken care of that little motor still holds up and while my research doesn't show lower end grafonola floor models being worth very much it still seems to be a unique little machine and is worth a lot to me. Thank you for the help!

[MisterJive47]

Good old trial & error and process of elimination. Looks like you're already getting the hang of working on these. Nice job! Sounds like it won't be long before you have it 100% operational.

[CurtA]

Viva-Tonal machines are very good players and the plus, as mentioned, is the cabinet being quarter-sawn oak.  You might also check the ratchet pawl (the small piece that flips down to lock the crank from spinning backwards) to make sure it moves freely.  Sometimes these get gummed up with old grease.  The pics below show various pawls - yours should be similar.