Columbia "20th Century" cylinder in plain box mystery

[phonoobsession]

I am trying to find out when (and for what reason) the attached plain box with only a small stripe label was used for the Columbia "20th Century" cylinders - has anyone reliable information on this?

 

Even one of the experts on Columbia "20th Century" cylinders, Larry Hawes (may God rest his soul), obviously was not totally sure about whether this was used before or after the boxes with the nicely illustrated "Lady Columbia" label design. To my knowledge, his last theory was, that these were used at a point when sales decreased and Columbia were forced to save money. I think that this makes perfectly sense, but didn't get it confirmed somehow. The patent dates on the stripe label are the same as on the first "Lady Columbia" box (last date: March 10, 1903) . But the second "Lady Columbia" box had other (younger) patent dates (last date: Nov. 1, 1904), which would make it a little illogical that the box with stipe label came after this. So, was it used before the "Lady Columbia" label? Why would Columbia have started the sales of this exclusive and more expensive product by using an unattractive plain box? A third option of course would be that they used the plain box in between, though I can't think of any reason for this either, unless they ran out of printed labels perhaps.

 

That's all a bit confusing to me. But I trust one of the longtime collectors here has some answers. 🙂

 

Thanks!

Helmut

[Analogous]

Hi Helmut,

 

I don't know the answer to this question but suspect the box was not used for sale copies.  Columbia was pretty brand conscious so I'd expect them to do better than this plain Jane.

 

The patent dates provide a clue.  Have you looked them up?  Maybe this box was used for 6" recording blanks.  

 

[phonoobsession]

Hi John,

 

All patent dates on the stripe label of the plain box are the same as on the first version of the "Lady Columbia - 20th Century" label. To my knowledge both were used for black wax moulded records, not for recording blanks.

 

Sure, it is possible too that the stripe label box wasn't used for sale copies. Maybe retailers got (free?) copies for promotional purpose. But until we find a conformation for this, it is just another theory. If Larry would still be with us, it would be interesting to hear his opinion on this. As he had an almost complete collection of them and obviously had seen many of these records, he maybe would have been able to estimate how many of the boxes were of the plain type and if that suggested that they were promotionnal copies or not. Maybe his son Ben can also answer this question.

[Lamaziere]

Let me look through the collection to see if I can provide any insight.

Is there a record with this box?  Anything on the lid?

[phonoobsession]

Hi Ben,

 

The lid has no label but a pencilled number 85025. The record inside is not matching, as it is number 85031. Whether the lid or the record were originally with this box or one of them got mixed up in later years with another 20th Century, I can't tell. So, I would rather not use this information to date the box.

That would be great, if you could check the collection and then perhaps get an idea when and why these cheaply designed boxes where used. Please let me know what you will find out. Thanks!

 

Helmut