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Thank you, that is helpful. Dad knows that the wooden base is not original to the reproduction. That one belonged to a long-time friend of his. Dad does know more about the machine, so I'll have to ask him about the rest of it. I really appreciate your time and expertise in helping educate me. 🙂 Lynne

Those are, as you note, reproductions and not original phonographs. They represent the very first prototype phonograph made in December 1877, and commonly called the "Kruesi" by modern collectors. This is in reference to John Kruesi, the machinist in Edison's lab who made the original. Edison had detailed blueprints made of the original Kruesi in 1930. These drawings were sold in the gift shop of the Edison National Historic Site in New Jersey for decades. They were also reprinted in my own book on tinfoil phonographs, published in 2000. Consequently, anyone with a lathe, the instructions, and a modicum of skill could make replicas of their own. Untold numbers of people have done so in the last near-century. As a result, replica Kruesis are the most common of all tinfoil phonographs today. With so many people making them, with varying skill levels, there's a lot of variation among them. Some were made in small production runs, say 25-50, by highly skilled machinists. Those can often look convincingly accurate, and work as well as the original. Others were made in smaller numbers (very often on-offs), less skillfully made, and are fine as display pieces but are not fully functional. Your pictures aren't detailed enough to make clear judgments, but the one with black metal base appears, at least from the one picture, to be a pretty well-made example. Check the underside -- sometimes makers sign their work on the bottom. The one with wooden base is a different story. That was evidently made by someone who was able to machine the brass parts, but not to cast the iron base. As a result, he made a wooden base for it, with the correct shape. I confess that it looks very nice with a wooden base, but it is definitely not accurate as a replica. The brass plate was obviously hand-stamped and meant simply to identify it as a phonograph, something that wouldn't be obvious to non-collectors. As for value, that's tough to say. It all comes down to who is in the market for a replica at a given time. These are very much 'niche' machines, with limited interest. An excellent Kruesi, with accurate details and in functioning order, might get $1,500 - $2,500 on a good day. One of the known best-of-the-best replicas could reach over $3,000. The wood-based copy is anyone's guess. The lack of authenticity is a deep hit, but it might appeal to someone. The metal work looks quite good, at least what I can tell from a photo.

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct category, as I'm a rookie. Helping my dad value some of his machines as we prepare to sell them. Can anyone help me value a Tinfoil Phonograph? We have two reproduction machines. Would appreciate any advice/education you all can provide. Much thanks. Lynne Luckey and Dale Lorang

Browsing the internet I found these pictures, where you can see how the sides of the gramophone are actually veneer - I'd wondered how they were made. In the 1911 catalogue it says mahogany - which isn't really consistent with woodworm attacks - so it's probably mahogany veneer all over. The gramophone in the pictures is for sale at 1700 euros at Odalys - it looks interesting somehow, I wonder what its been through?

Wow… that is a cool broadside… wish I had seen that… thank you for posting this… what other ephemera came with the lot..?

Interestingly, it's part of the National Museum of American History’s collection. Although it's listed as an Oprea, it is more likely a Schoolhouse, and the recording attachment is not shown with it. (Edison Opera Phonograph | National Museum of American History) The Minnesota Historical Society’s collection also includes an AT Graphophone that was used by Densmore. (Columbia Graphophone phonograph used by Frances Densmore)

I remember seeing this somewhere a number of years ago. Itys terrific. Congrats!

Not a problem George. It is very well done and I still like it.

I hate to be "that guy" but I remember seeing a couple of these at Union about 25 years ago. These are glass pipe holders which had the silk screened lettering added to them at the behest of a collector. This is the problem when fantasy meets excellent workmanship. I suspect some other "old timers" like me may remember these. George P.

A collector friend is downsizing and offered me this glass Victor needle tray for free. I said no to free and gave him what he paid for it years ago. I was back up bidder when he got it. I always loved it. I have never seen anything like it.

Edison 4 minute recorder stylus - $300 or best offer. I have included a photo of an Edison business recorder to show the difference.

Nice to know the back story of this famous phonograph/photograph...

Thanks Rod!

Aaron Cramer made reproductions of those attachments. The ones Aaron made were all painted black. I have one for my Amberola IA.

I'm so glad Cliff was able to help—he's a great guy, and I’m sure he’ll find them good homes!

My mistake — although the National Museum of American History has it cataloged as an Opera, it’s more likely a Schoolhouse. (Edison Opera Phonograph | National Museum of American History)

BenL posted this photo in response to a different topic: https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/2113-edison-4-minute-recording-head-carriage/ Mountain Chief of Piegan Blackfeet making phonographic record at Smithsonian. The interviewer is ethnologist Frances Densmore. 1916. Further documentation available at: https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/mountain-chief-blackfoot-1916/ Although the photo was probably staged, it does show anthropologist Frances Densmore sitting with Mountain Chief of the Blackfoot Indian tribe, while he interprets a song in Plains Indian sign language. The photo was taken for the Bureau of American Ethnology at the Smithsonian Institute on February 9, 1916. Mountain Chief was a Blackfoot leader of the 19th century. He belonged to the Kainai or Blood tribe of the Blackfoot Confederacy. His Blackfoot name was Ninna-stako (also spelled Ninastoko, Nina-istako, Ninaa-iistako, Ninaiistako, and other ways), and was a reference to the name of an important mountain in the traditional territory of his band. Mountain Chief began his career as a warrior leader in 1866 at age eighteen, when he led a Blackfoot war party against the Crows at Cypress Hills. In an 1873 battle against the Crow, he was badly wounded in one of his legs. Ninastoko limped for the rest of his life. Although aggressive in the face of the Blackfoot’s traditional native enemies, Mountain Chief was more accommodating to immigrating Euro-Americans. During his work as a negotiator, Mountain Chief met four US presidents-McKinley, Taft, Theodore Roosevelt, and Wilson. He also worked with General Hugh L. Scott for several years to record Plains Indians’ sign languages. Ninastoko went blind late in life and died in 1942 at age ninety-four at his home in Blood Indian Reserve, Montana.

I have an original box for one of these attachments, with the labels intact. There is no provision for indicating color. I have my doubts that such a utilitarian piece would have been originally color-matched by the factory - especially considering the various colors that would have been necessary to match a IA, IB, and Opera/Concert in their various cabinets. George P.

You are correct, sir. Gorge P.

Great picture. I have to wonder if the color of the carriage was specific to a model of phonograph. Mine is black. Would it then be correct for an Edison Schoolhouse?

If I'm not mistaken, it's the attachment used by Frances Densmore on her Opera to make some of the earliest recordings of Native Americans.

Coincidentally, this recording attachment will be pictured and described as part of my article in the June issue of the APS magazine. It was indeed meant for the Opera, School, and Amberola IA and IB. George P.

I want to thank BenL for mentioning Cliff of Cliff’s Vintage Music. He has bought most of the phonographs. I have a Victrola XVI and an XVII left, if anyone in the local area is interested.

I found this in a box of parts that came with an Edison Home. I am pretty sure it is a recording head carriage for 4-minute black wax records. There were a few of the 4 minute black wax recording blank records in the box also. I am not sure what model of Edison phonograph it would go to. It is black so I don't think it would be for an Opera. What does everyone think? It will be available at the Midwest Music Expo coming up in June in Schaumburg Illinois.

Recently found a bulk lot of vinyl/shellac for auction on the Ebays. I had seen it up for auction in the past a few times but it never had any bids. Advertised was 420 records, a mixture of vinyl, singles and shellac, it was a lucky dip as could not ascertain what it contained by the photos, except for a few releases by the long-haired musicians - Brahms, Beethoven and Bach. My main interest in auction was for the 78RPMs, I had never intentionally bought any before. For the last few years people have been giving me their CD,DVD,Bluray,vinyl or shellac, I guess most are streaming now, or no longer have things to play them on. So managed to accumulated circa x300 free 78s. I bought a Decca 1920/30s trench style wind up to play them on. Starting bid was $99, no one else bidded -so I won. The round things were situated about an hours drive north of me at a place called Meadow Heights. Didn't see any meadows there - just houses, and suburb was on flat land - no hills or heights, although they had lots of annoying speed humps through the streets. I brought with me a milk crate for the shellac and a few other boxes to take the music home, allowing for the circa 400 recordings. As I transferred the records from his side porch to my car, something was a miss. I was running out of room. They already had a milk crate full of shellac and vinyl were in plastic tubs/cardboard boxes, so I had to leave some of their supplied containers behind as the boot (which I think you more northern folk refer to as a trunk) was full, as was back seat and passenger side. Could just see partially through rear-vision mirror on the way back home. I survived the trek back, navigating over all the speed humps and having literally a full load. Once I unpacked and sorted through everything, found I had over 900 albums/singles/EPs/Shellac there. Clearly the guy I bought these from either cannot count or just guess-timated the quantity. They also seem to possess very little knowledge about these 'big black CDs'. So it ended up being: 130 Shellac (10" & 12"), 83 Singles/EPs/flexi-discs, the rest were 10" & 12" vinyl & box sets. To me looking at the auction photo it does not look like 900 items, maybe some were to the side not present on the table. 78rpms were on the usual labels eg, Brunswick, Capitol, Columbia, Decca, HMV, Jazzart, MGM, Parlophone, Regal Zonophone. So that averages out to roughly 11c a record. Alot of rubbish in there, but might find a few gems as I go through them all. A surprise was amongst them, there were x3 78 Acetate recordings, never seem them in the flesh before. I only thought they existed in 33/45RPM form - but these were 78rpm recordings. One was by a guy called Danny Kaye but could not see the song title anywhere on Discogs, so might be a different Danny Kaye? Are 78rpm acetates common?