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Good Morning, I recently acquired a Columbia Grafonola TypeE-2( as far as I know from research). After I removed motorboard , tonearm etc for transporting. I found these 2 cup like washers in the horn compartment. I didn’t hear anything fall while disassembling but found them . Are they part of this machine or something random that fell in there? I couldn’t find any info about these washers. I also posted this on the TMF. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Dan

When I was a very young collector in the 1960s Larry Schlick was one of my mentors. He was tremendously helpful and supportive. I remember he was working on his book during the time we corresponded. I can't remember his precise job but he was involved with printing, which was pretty complex in those days, since photographs had to be converted to halftones. He offered to make stationery for me, making a halftone of my Columbia AB for the header. I was thrilled with it. I still remember pictures he sent me following some of his buying trips. He found amazing things. Somewhere in my files I have a 2 or 3 page spread that was published about his collection in a local newspaper, with lots of pictures. He was a great guy. I was glad to finally meet him as an (old) adult in the early 2000s, a long way from my teenage years. Edit to add: Here is the article about Larry Schlick from my old scrapbook.

When I was in my “tweans” I first discovered FTTS at my local library. That was in the early 1970’s. Being an impressionable youth l was taken in by the propaganda. Later on in my early community college days I was able to find my own copy at a local electronics supply shop with SAMS repair books. From this later period I was able to really look what I had been reading and then compare it to the early printing of the Frow & Sefl book of 1983. FTTS is very biased pro Edison. Some time later I was able to find Oliver Read’s book “The Recording and Reproduction of Sound. This takes us up to the state of the art in 1952. So there is still quite a bit of information on 78rpm discs. And early crystal and magnetic pickups plus tone arms. Its also available on the Internet Archive. https://archive.org/details/The_Recording_and_Reproduction_of_Sound_Oliver_Read_1952 There is a whole chapter on the history of acoustic recording. And is not biased in the same way FTTS is. I think Mr. Welch had the most editorial control on the later book. Another early library book available to me was Schlick’s Portfolio of Early Phonographs. Not totally accurate but the photographs were great to look at!

If you want to email me directly my address is rene@rondeau.net.

Muchas gracias René Le envié un email en relación a un tinfoil que aparece en un periodico español, le envío la imagen por aquí por el foro? Saludos PD: Me parece muy curioso que conservemos más piezas anotadas de música de la Grecia Antigua en los también frágiles papiros que grabaciones en tinfoil. También me resulta muy extraño que no se conserve nada del antiguo Daily Phonograph Thank you very much René. Did I send him an email regarding a tyinfoil that appears in a Spanish newspaper, do I send him the image here on the forum? Greetings PS: I find it very curious that we keep more annotated pieces of music from Ancient Greece in the also fragile papyri than recordings in tinfoil. I also find it very strange that nothing of the old Daily Phonograph is preserved.

Many years ago, about the time I came into this hobby when I purchased my VV-XI (c.1980), I acquired a copy of FTTS. Even then I was disappointed by the dominance of Edison coverage, and comparatively little on Victor, my main interest. I remember reading into the book, but I got bogged down by detail which didn't interest me, so I returned it to my shelf where it sat for many more years, until one dayI donated it to the library book sale. It may still exist to spread its particular viewpoint and misinformation on to a new owner.; somehow I hope not.

Well, ain't that a caution! 🙂 George P.

Jerry, with all respect to the internet, lots of reliable information was made available to us collectors before its widespread availability. I believe Eric Reiss's first edition of The Compleat Talking Machine came out in 1985, and of course George Frow had already published a couple of editions of The Edison Cylinder Phonograph, along with The Edison Disc Phonograph. Allen Koenigsberg had published Edison Two-Minute Cylinder Records, 1889-1912, as well as The Patent History of the Phonograph. And of course Ray Wile's research and articles which appeared in the ARSC Journal over the years were models of solid research. Ron Dethlefson's books on Edison Blue Amberols and Edison Disc Records and artists can't be overlooked either. And...if I may be so bold...the first Fabrizio-Paul book (The Talking Machine Compendium) was written without the aid of the internet. (Our family didn't even have a computer until 1998!) When I began writing articles in 1981, my tools (like those used by the authors mentioned above) were reproduction catalogs (or originals when I could find them), correspondence with other collectors/researchers, phone calls to knowledgeable people, in-person visits to The Edison National Historic Site (now the Thomas A. Edison Historic Park), and trusted books like those above and others such as the Benjamin Aldrich history of Victor found in Volume One of Fagan & Moran's Encyclopedic Discography of Victor Recordings. It took lots of time, effort, and sometimes expense (books were never cheap). Read and Welch labored under much the same parameters, but somehow arrived at different conclusions than other authors. I don't ascribe this to the absence of the internet, but rather to having a pre-conceived agenda - especially in the case of Walter Welch. The internet has made things far easier, much faster, and less expensive. I'm not sure if it has always made the results more accurate, but as a researcher/author, I certainly do appreciate it. George P.

Truly fascinating material. Thanks so much for sharing!

EXACTLY! When you listen to the posted recording, you will notice that the "major wobble" occurs at the very end of each selection. Same results, different player.

I tend to think that it was the best they could do at the time. Without something like the internet and its "hive mentality" and archived data, what did they have to go from? It seems odd really, that this book was written not sooo long after the acoustic phonograph era, yet so much knowledge and historical facts had already been lost or contorted due to sketchy memories. Oddly now, 100 years later, so much more is known. What will future historians think of our publications? Not to worry, I suppose, since AI will certainly have it all figured out... 😕

Rod, It occurs to me that if you record that Blue Amberol on a different machine, and carefully compare the results, it would tell whether the slight inconsistencies are inherent in the Blue Amberol itself, or in your playback machine. If they're in the Blue Amberol, my money is on it being a test of playback apparatus (possibly a new electric motor). If the inconsistencies differ or disappear using a different machine, then apparently these are pure tones used to calibrate something. Beyond that conjecture, I'm stumped. George P.

I've now been through all the tin foil sheets. Not the 40 sheets I thought. 56/57 of them! Video here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EUoJB47DiiYVcnE86 A couple more photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZQj4VrW34cvJwev7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/AWnL8RMikyuimQMC7

At first glance your list appears to be consistent with the data I have put together in 30 years of research. Two years ago I coordinated with Carlene Stephens at the Smithsonian Institution, who wanted to know about surviving tinfoil recordings in order to put their holdings into context. This is what I wrote to her at the time, with additional details (where possible): The Smithsonian attempted to recover sound from their two sheets. The one that may have been recorded at the demonstration in Washington in April 1878 was unfortunately too damaged to be digitized. The other, clearly recorded on a small Demonstration phonograph had a few barely audible sounds but was too poor to understand. The only recording that has been recovered with clearly audible speech and music is the sheet recorded in St. Louis in 1879, in the Schenectady museum. I still hope that someday the Ford Museum will digitize the alleged Bernhardt sheet. The condition is not perfect but most of it looks intact and relatively free of serious damage. The size of the sheet, and threads per inch, prove conclusively that it was recorded on a brass Bergmann Exhibition 'Drawing Room Instrument,' with 40 tpi. Edison kept such a machine in his lab, as is evidenced in pictures from the era. The appearance, size, tpi, and provenance all point to it being exactly what it claims, making it potentially a hugely important historic recording.

Interesting BA, Rod. I could see this as a calibration device, but to what end? Test tones can be used for many applications. I hope more information is eventually uncovered.

Thanks very much Jerry. I think enough is enough now. I've had my 'fun' and relived the memory of it all those years ago. Only two things left to do 1) fix the front door/lid of the carrying box and 2) examine the packed tin foils to see if there is a recording in between. Very unlikely, but amazing if there was.

You've done a fantastic job!

Podrían ayudarme a completar un inventario de las láminas de tinfoil conservadas? Could you help me complete an inventory of the preserved tinfoil sheets?

Institución signatura Fecha Observaciones Edison National Historic Site [1] - - Grabada en un Bergman Edison National Historic Site [2] - - Grabada en un Bergman Edison National Historic Site [3] - - - Edison National Historic Site [4] - 1878? - Institución Smithsonian [1] National Museum of American Historic Id Number:GA.00672 1878-04-18 ¿? https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object/nmah_808730 Institución Smithsonian [2] - - Donada en 1925 Biblioteca del Congreso [1] - 1970? Biblioteca del Congreso [2] - 1970? Audio Belfer (Universidad de Syracuse) - 1930? Schenectady Museum of Innovation and Science - 1878 Sant Louis Museo Henry Ford [1] - 1880? Voz de Sara Bernhardt ¿? Museo Henry Ford [2] - 1878? - Edison-Ford Winter Estates [1] - 1879-04-02 ¿? - Edison-Ford Winter Estates [2] - 1920ss? - Biblioteca británica - - - Museo Noruego de Ciencia y Tecnología [1] - 1879? Corneta? Museo Noruego de Ciencia y Tecnología [2] - 1882-1884c - Museo Tekniska de Estocolmo [1] - - - Museo Tekniska de Estocolmo [2] - - - - - 1890? Lambert Talking Clock Charles Hummel Collection (privado) - - Christie's de Londres (venta) - - Vendida en diciembre de 1999, grabada en un Parlor

This comment was received from an earlier conversation: "Wonder what rotational speed Theodore E. had in mind? 90, 100, 160, or whatever? Anyway, at the rotational speed you are playing it with, even though your governor is a smidge inconsistent, the pitches of the tones are: A above middle C, followed by the next higher C sharp, next higher G sharp, next higher C sharp, and then the next higher E. These tones will however let you hear any waver in the reproduction due to even a minuscule amount of wow. Might be a great way to test a recording machine that Theodore’s team would be using to record tones for perfect consistent pitch. Another thought: The US Signal Army Corps was working with TAE Inc. to produce morse code teaching and testing cylinders in 4 inch and 6 inch lengths and they use tones of this sort. Was this experimental series of cylinders used “in house” to develop the morse code cylinders for production?"

I'm sure you are sick to death of me posting stuff but I've amalgamated all material - videos, photos, provenance into these folders. Three new videos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QB4DWNPGRFJz8Qj98 - front, back and flywheel Phono photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PRgvbJebWefXkivb9 Provenance: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8u1WNrLyt4bitGQr7 Photos of family with the phonograph: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PBTWGA5vKQY8jNxT6 Tin foils: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uwg8UijpN43XQHpTA Carrying case/box: https://photos.app.goo.gl/x7KSVLErkLTwyonW6 It's unlikely that I will do any more work on it, unless I decide to keep it, which or course I would love to. However, that now seems unlikely too.

I'd rather listen to this than to Uncle Josh! I wonder what the Edison technicians would have been testing for in April 1930? Possibly the steadiness of an electric motor? If so, it would have been for an Ediphone. Whatever the circumstances, it's an interesting mystery. George P.

I've now completed my 'light clean' and it now looks absolutely great. I've made two videos one for the front and one for the back, that covers everything. 6 and 8 minutes, plus a video of the axle spinning - so smooth! I don't think I will do anything more - in my eyes it's perfect as it is - old but clean. I may not even put any Renaissance wax on it. I have a dehumidifier running so it's very dry. It's been a pleasure working on it and remembering my Dad showing it to me 60+ years ago.. I'm now going to consider what to do with it. In an ideal world I wish you could all have it! Anyway videos here. Some repetition of what you have seen before. Don't fall asleep! https://photos.app.goo.gl/QB4DWNPGRFJz8Qj98

I'm in possession of a 4-minute Blue Amberol, etched as "Ed. EX. No. 16 4/3/30", presumably for Edison Experiment No. 16. Recorded are a series of short-duration "tone tests", each different. An Internet search for "blue amberol tone tests" revealed the following; however, these all likely refer to the tone-test cylinders dated 1929 or earlier. Attached are photos for reference and a link to a crude acoustic recording made with the smart-phone voice recorder. It was played on an Edison Fireside, Model K reproducer. WARNING: The recording is painful to hear. Comments welcome. Edison Experimental BA Tone Test no 16 4-3-30 .mp3

Perhaps this was true for the cylinders as well. The restored cylinder Charley had was the correct diameter, nearly 7 inches, but only 9 inches in length, not 14 - "The Old Oaken Bucket". I believe it was a single-track, not multiple, but not really sure. If my information is incorrect, apologies.