Dan

The person that owned these would have been in his 80s in the 70s and he never talked about nor did we ever see any antique phonographs, just found two horns that were in great disrepair.

I opened one of the three full cylinders and unwrapped the cotton from the wax cylinder. I’ve left the other two untouched. 
Any information would be appreciated.

Thanking you for your time..

Dee

Saludos

Thank you, Art Heller

Recorded are a series of short-duration "tone tests", each different.

An Internet search for "blue amberol tone tests" revealed the following; however, these all likely refer to the tone-test cylinders dated 1929 or earlier.

Attached are photos for reference and a link to a crude acoustic recording made with the smart-phone voice recorder.  It was played on an Edison Fireside, Model K reproducer.

WARNING:  The recording is painful to hear.  Comments welcome.

Special series such as the Grand Opera, Royal Purple, Concert, Special A-J, and the D-series boxes are not included here.

Like Columbia, Edison's first cylinder boxes were plain pasteboard, but at some point (probably in 1899), the National Phonograph Company began applying labels to its boxes.

Type 1

The first Edison box did not feature a portrait of Edison.  Records sold in this box were originally wrapped in cotton.

Type 2

The second type Edison box added a picture of Edison; a feature which would remain for the next two decades.  The rest of the label was quite similar to the Type 1, minus the verbiage.  Records sold in this box were originally wrapped in cotton.

Type 3

This label, the first in an overall blue tint, was the first to incorporate the National Phonograph Co. script below Edison's portrait, and also the first to display patent dates in a boxed area.   Records sold in this box were originally wrapped in cotton.  (Photos of Type 3 courtesy of John Levin.)

Type 4

This label was also rendered in shades of blue, and the patents ended with Oct. 1, 1901.

Type 5

This label was quite similar to Type 4, but the patents ended with Nov. 11, 1902.  Records sold in this box were originally wrapped in wax paper.

Type 6

This was the first "Gold Mounded" label, heralding the arrival of harder, molded black wax records.  The patent dates ended with Nov. 18, 1902.  Records sold in this box were originally wrapped in wax paper.

Type 7

This box was of larger diameter than those which preceded and followed it.  It incorporated a pasteboard spindle inside to secure the record, thus eliminating the need for wax paper wrapping.  The label was a combination of buff, white, and red; a palate that would persist until the end of Edison two-minute record production in 1912.  A price of 35 cents was specified , and patent dates ended with Nov. 18, 1902.  This box was announced in the July 1904 issue of The Edison Phonograph Monthly, along with the appearance of titles embossed in white on the rims of the records.

Type 8

This box reverted to a smaller diameter and dispensed with the internal spindle.  The record was protected by a cloth liner (found in all subsequent Edison two-minute cylinder boxes), whose tendency to absorb moisture and promote mold damage has been the bane of collectors.  Patent dates ended with May 23, 1905.  This is probably the most common Edison two-minute record box.  An uncommon variant has the price printed as "35 CENTS APIECE"  rather than the version seen here: "THIRTY FIVE (35) CENTS APIECE."

Type 9

This label was quite similar to Type 8, but the patent dates ended with April 23, 1907.

Type 10

This label eliminated the "Gold Moulded" nomenclature, and the patent dates continued to end with April 23, 1907.

Type 10a

Thanks to Rich Hegwood, here's a variation that doesn't seem to fit the chronology.  On one hand, this label retains the earlier "Gold Moulded" terminology, but on the other hand, it carries a patent date of March 3, 1908!  I can't explain it, but for the sake of comprehensiveness, here it is:

Type 11

This label was quite similar to Type 10, but with patent dates ending with March 3, 1908.

Type 12

This was the final design for the Edison two-minute cylinder record box.  The label stated that it was a "Standard Record" as opposed to the new four-minute Amberol Records which were being sold alongside it.  The patent dates ended with June 28, 1910.

Type 13

This was the first of the Amberol boxes, housing Edison's new four-minute wax record.  The label was marked, "Form 1375 August 1908."  Like its predecessors, the box was lined with cotton to protect the record.

Type 14

This label was quite similar to Type 13, but with redesigned boxed information, and marked, "Form 1533 Feb. 20, 1909."

Type 14a

Thanks again to Rich Hegwood for the photos of this late wax Amberol box, which shows Thomas A. Edison Inc. as being the manufacturer and a July 12, 1910 patent date.  Note also the prominent space for the catalog number at the 2:00 position outside Edison's portrait.

Type 15

This the first of the Blue Amberol boxes.  Patent information was moved to the lid, creating the plainest of all the Edison box labels, marked, "Form No. 475 June 1, 1912."   Because of the robust celluloid surfaces, no cotton was used in the interiors of these and subsequent boxes.

Type 16

This box was quite similar to Type 15, retaining the same Form number, but dated Dec. 1913.  The major difference was in Edison's portrait.

Type 17

This label was the first of the orange and blue designs which carried Edison's dwindling cylinder trade to its end.  This design is marked, "Form 3509 Feb. 1917."

Type 18

This label retained the same Forum number, but was marked, "3509 - 125M - 418."  (The "418" might denote April 1918.)  The most noticeable changes were the addition of laboratory retorts on each side of the word, "RECORD," and patent dates ending with Dec. 4, 1917. 

Type 19

This label retained the same Form number, but carried a different portrait of Edison.  A U.S. price of 35 cents was printed on the front.

Type 20

The penultimate label for Edison entertainment cylinder records retained the 35 cent price on the front, but like the very first Edison box labels that had appeared many years before, there was no portrait of Edison. 

Type 21

This label - the final one used for Edison entertainment cylinder records - carried the same Form number as the previous design, but eliminated the price.  As in the Type 20, Edison's likeness was not featured on this label.

George P.

George P.

Columbia's first cylinder boxes, like Edison's, were plain pasteboard boxes, so I won't picture one here.

TYPE 1, Columbia's first known labeled cylinder box featured a small image of Columbia holding a shield:

TYPE 2: Columbia's second known box was (except for a change of Chicago's street address) identical to Type 1, but with the addition of the Paris Office address:

TYPE 3, "First Flag."  The red, while, and blue palate was continued but with a substantially larger image of Columbia - now holding a flag.  A Type A Graphophone appeared beside her, with the decal lettering misspelled "GRAPHAPHONE."

TYPE 3 detail:  Note below that the list of cities with Columbia offices ended with Buffalo, and the label cited a price:

TYPE 4: The "First Flag" design was unchanged (including the misspelling), but no price was shown.  In addition to conventional brown wax records, Columbia's first moulded cylinders (also in brown wax) were sold in this style box:

TYPE 5: In this "Third Flag" version, the misspelling was corrected to GRAPHOPHONE, San Francisco was added to the bottom of the list of cities, and the price reappeared:

TYPE 6: In the "4th Flag" label (the final of the red, white, and blue series), the addition of "EXTRA LOUD, HIGH SPEED" made it clear that 160 rpm moulded records (although still in brown wax) had appeared.  This style box was evidently produced for only a short time:

TYPE 7: The first "Blue Label" showed Columbia in blue on a buff background, and the image was noticeably larger than those which would succeed it.  The machine beside Columbia is a Type HG.  No price was listed.  The list of cities ended with San Francisco, and no patent dates were listed:

A detail from the Type 7 box, showing the list of cities:

Type 8: The image of Columbia was noticeably smaller than Type 7.  A price of 25 cents was listed (this reduction was announced in the September 1903 issue of The Columbia Record).  The list of cities ended with Hamburg.  A list of patents was included, ending with March 10, 1903:

A detail from the TYPE 8 label showing the list of cities ending with Hamburg:

TYPE 9: The "Third Blue" label appeared to be almost identical to the previous one, but a new list of cities ended with Hong Kong:

TYPE 10:  The "4th (and final) Blue" label appeared to be almost identical to Types 8 and 9, but the list of patents included "Reissue March 10, 1903," and Nov. 1, 1904.

TYPE 11: In late 1908, Columbia became the sole distributor of the Indestructible Record Company's output of celluloid cylinder records.  Existing inventory were given an identification strip showing it to be Columbia product:

Another view:

TYPE 12:  Once the old Indestructible boxes were gone, new Columbia boxes appeared.  This is a 2-minute cylinder box:

TYPE 13: A different design was necessary for Columbia's 4-minute cylinders.  (I could not locate a suitable box, so I borrowed this image from the internet):

Finally, although not a standard-size cylinder record, perhaps the 1905-1909 "Twentieth Century Record" box deserves a showing here.  The record was of standard diameter but 6 inches long; allowing a selection of 3 minutes to be played (on a specially-designed Graphophone, of course).  The last of these boxes included "Milan 1906" at the bottom of the banner.

I hope some will find this entertaining and perhaps educational.  If I missed any, please feel free to contribute and I will gladly edit this post.

George P.

In 1912 while running for President as the Progressive Party candidate, (Bull Moose Party) Roosevelt recorded 4 Wax Amberol Cylinders for Edison. Upon Teddy Roosevelt's death in 1919, the Edison company reissued 3 of these cylinders as Blue Amberols, but the forth one, the Progressive Party Covenant with the People, was not reissued and remains only available in the extremely fragile 4 min. wax format and is rare indeed. With my suggesting, he is considering issuing it. Many of us collectors have the 3 set of the Blue Amberols and would love to have the 4th to make it complete. He is looking for a good clean soundtrack to use. Any ideas????? I would also personally like to know how many collectors out there would like to complete their Teddy Roosevelt sets....I'm sure I am not alone in this. Thanks for helping restore history!    BULLY!   James Manker    PS  the UCSB database does not have it in their listings, only the reissued Blue Amberols.  The Library of Congress copy is only OK and somewhat muddy sounding.

Thanks!

Steve

Here is my replacement post:

The local museum has contacted me regarding a display they are preparing which will include information regarding original 1899/1900 recordings of first nations on Columbia cylinder blanks. They had asked me for information which might lead to their acquisition of an age-appropriate cylinder box (hopefully with lid) for their display. The image they provided me will be attached to this post. One of George's comments was that he had not seen a Columbia box specifically for a recording blank. Someone else had offered good comments, but I no longer have a record of who made them. I had not made notes of the comments as I was waiting until I could compile and present them to the museum.

For those reading this who may have wished to see the chronological history of Columbia boxes, here is the link:

https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/251-columbia-record-boxes-us-standard-size-chronology/#comment-1422

If anyone has any information about my inquiry, I would be happy to hear from you (again?).

Don Mayer

20240301133400.pdf

The Early Recordings Initiative at the Library has funded the publication of Edison Two-Minute and Concert Cylinders: American Issues, 1897-1912 by Allen Sutton.  The listing is much more detailed than Allen Koenigsberg's ECR, itself a landmark publication back in the '60s.  There are details when titles transitioned from brown wax to black, initial sales figures, and - best of all - it's searchable.

The other publication, Edison Four-Minute Cylinders: Amberols, Blue Amberols, and Royal Purple Amberols: Domestic Issues, 1912-1930 by Allen Sutton is equally impressive and equally searchable.  It has detailed information on session dates, lists the wax Amberols that correlate with celluloid re-issues, and it includes obscurities like the Pan-Pacific Exposition 2-minute cylinders and the oversized Kinetophone records.

Information and links to both publications are available here:

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/resources/detail/497

Benjamin Harrison was an American politician and lawyer who served as the 23rd president of the United States from 1889 to 1893. He was a grandson of the ninth president, William Henry Harrison, and a great-grandson of Benjamin Harrison V, a founding father who signed the United States Declaration of Independence.

He is also the first known U.S. “sitting” President to have his voice recorded and was done so by Bettini.

Attempts to find this cylinder have thus far been unsuccessful.  Many, many years ago the Benjamin Harrison home in Indianapolis sold a cassette-tape, which contained, in-part, the Bettini / Harrison recording.

In my last attempt to visit the museum and find additional material, the young lady working in the gift shop asked “What’s a cassette-tape?”

SIGH!

In any event, you can learn more about “Famous Voices” recordings by following these Forum links:

Florence Nightingale Recordings - Transfers & Videos - Antique Phonograph Society Forum

P.T. Barnum, 1890 London - Transfers & Videos - Antique Phonograph Society Forum

Thanks in advance!

.

I have (unfortunately) a box of  broken cylinder records. Most are 2 minute Edison and a few brown wax.

This is the byproduct of years of buying "box lot" cylinders.

Is there any useful purpose these might serve? Thought I would ask before they are tossed out.

Thanks,

DaveC

Free for pickup in Dorchester (Boston) or if you pay postage I can mail them.

I have no interest in these items & just looking to avoid throwing out. 
 

thank you

Even one of the experts on Columbia "20th Century" cylinders, Larry Hawes (may God rest his soul), obviously was not totally sure about whether this was used before or after the boxes with the nicely illustrated "Lady Columbia" label design. To my knowledge, his last theory was, that these were used at a point when sales decreased and Columbia were forced to save money. I think that this makes perfectly sense, but didn't get it confirmed somehow. The patent dates on the stripe label are the same as on the first "Lady Columbia" box (last date: March 10, 1903) . But the second "Lady Columbia" box had other (younger) patent dates (last date: Nov. 1, 1904), which would make it a little illogical that the box with stipe label came after this. So, was it used before the "Lady Columbia" label? Why would Columbia have started the sales of this exclusive and more expensive product by using an unattractive plain box? A third option of course would be that they used the plain box in between, though I can't think of any reason for this either, unless they ran out of printed labels perhaps.

That's all a bit confusing to me. But I trust one of the longtime collectors here has some answers. 🙂

Thanks!

Helmut